another new document for Prius... ENERGY

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by john1701a, Apr 16, 2005.

Page 2 of 2
  1. geminirat

    geminirat Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2005
    32
    1
    0
    Location:
    Downriver, Michigan
    Wel duh.... Thanks Mark - I got it now. Scroll down.....
     
    #21 geminirat, Apr 17, 2005
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,194
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    No way John, there is zero connection to the HVbatt unless the car is in READY mode. The normally open relay is in open position at shut down.
     
    #22 efusco, Apr 17, 2005
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,789
    5,266
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    That relay utilization makes sense; however, it does not explain what I have seen multiple times now. How come I have observed the SOC drop with only the headlights on and have never seen that behavior any other time?

    Perhaps there is a secondary connection to the pack for special non-propulsion uses, like the headlights. And maybe it is only for the HID lights, not those with standard halogens.
     
    #23 john1701a, Apr 17, 2005
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,194
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The HID are 12v lamps, there's no direct connection to the Inverter/HV batt.

    Perhaps the large drain on you 12v is causing an immediate draw of the HV upon entering Ready mode such that there would be some drop.

    In any case, there is no direct power-off drain from the HV batt.
     
    #24 efusco, Apr 17, 2005
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,789
    5,266
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    The HID operate 22,000 volts. A converter is clearly needed to bump the voltage up. Where is it and what's it connected to? And the inverter does have a DC/DC module within it, that would allow for a draw from the pack rather than going through the auxiliary.

    As for the "immediate" drop, a 4-bar change in less than 1 second is hard to believe... though that would make for a great "jump" ability, being able to instantly bring the 12-volt back to life.

    There is obviously a missing piece to this puzzle. Having witnessed the "from 6 to 2 bar" phenomenum several times now, it is clear that the pack is somehow involved.
     
    #25 john1701a, Apr 17, 2005
  6. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    14,487
    3,000
    0
    Location:
    Fort Lee, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I think Prius HID is the same one that Toyota use for other regular Toyota. Traditional car with HID also run off 12V battery with its own inverter. I don't think Toyota made a special HID just for Prius so that it could run off 201.6/500 volt.

    Did you have the electric AC/Heater running while doing the photo shoot? Just trying to piece together the puzzle.
     
    #26 usbseawolf2000, Apr 17, 2005
  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,789
    5,266
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Is is absolutely, definitely, without-any-doubt OFF... which is essential, since I don't want any photo to ever show anything coming out of the tailpipe. I don't want a glow from the Multi-Display & Speedometer illuminating the interior either.

    I shut off the Prius using the power button, then twist the lever to turn the lights back on for the series of photos I'm about to take.

    As for Toyota not making something special just for the HSD system... they already have, for example the Steering & A/C. We all know that HSD is destined to become a standard offering anyway. For that matter, so is the HID light. Don't you love how Toyota started from scratch? It prevents any of the traditional logic from being concerned applicable by default.
     
    #27 john1701a, Apr 17, 2005
  8. altaskier

    altaskier New Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    157
    1
    0
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    It's already on the diagram twice (the two electric motors) and power output is far more relevant that cylinder displacement, especially when comparing between gas and electric motors. So to keep things non-techy, why not report the maximum output of all three motors (ICE, MG1, and MG2) in horsepower?
     
    #28 altaskier, Apr 17, 2005
  9. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Download it.

    Scroll down and download it as a word doc. Then you can make it as big as you want. When I downloaded it it came in at 77% I popped it up to 100% and that was good. Usually I view at 150%. Nice thing about the word doc is you can edit it. You can't do that if you download the pdf.
     
    #29 Godiva, Apr 17, 2005
  10. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    4,147
    19
    0
    the inverter for the HID are in the headlight assy just below and to the rear of the bulb. There are two one in each light.
    The electric steering is already in the new Corolla. Will it be the first with HSD?
     
    #30 Frank Hudon, Apr 17, 2005
  11. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,789
    5,266
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon\";p=\"82134)</div>
    Echo also has electric steering.

    Camry will be the first already existing CAR (not a SUV) that offers HSD. It is scheduled to be available in 2006.
     
    #31 john1701a, Apr 18, 2005
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,789
    5,266
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Re: Download it.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva\";p=\"82125)</div>
    Exactly. So if you don't agree with any particular wording, you can change to match your own needs.
     
    #32 john1701a, Apr 18, 2005
  13. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    3,799
    27
    0
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    First, HV battery is totally disconnected unless in READY mode. If that were not so, it would be possible to jump start the car with the HV battery if the aux battery were dead. I can't explain your drain, but it isn't from the 12V system. You can see that the 12V system is 14V in Ready mode, but drops to 12V or less in any other mode.

    The HID bulbs themselves are indeed 22K or so, but there is an electronic ballast to provide this with 12V. There is no high voltage connection between the HID and the inverter.

    The inverter is still called the inverter. It contains, among other assemblies, a booster to bring the 206V to 500V for the MGs. The classic does not have a booster in its inverter, and the Ford hybrid system uses the classic technology. No booster there either. Both battery and motor I believe are 270V on those.

    I am on a call at the moment, MG2 is rated 50KW. MG1 is not rated in NCF.
     
    #33 DanMan32, Apr 18, 2005
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,789
    5,266
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    What I would like to know is how the "booster" deals with a drop in voltage being fed to it... like when a module is taken offline by the computer when a malfunction is detected.

    Does that simply mean a minor drop in efficiency due to the extra load needed to achieve the 500 volts?

    And what happens to the other hybrids that don't have a "booster" available when a module goes bad? We know for a fact that the Classic runs just fine, but its uses AC. The Ford & Honda hybrids are DC. Does that make a difference?
     
    #34 john1701a, Apr 18, 2005
  15. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    3,799
    27
    0
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, FL
    I am not sure what you are asking, but the booster is basically splitting the inverter into 3 inverters in one. One inverter goes to/from 206 to 500V, then the other 2 are to power or receive power from their respective MGs. The MGs take or charge from the 500V capacitor, and the 500V capacitor is kept in its voltage range by taking or adding from battery through an inductor, much as today's switching power supplies do in computers. They are very efficient, though not 100%.
     
    #35 DanMan32, Apr 19, 2005
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 2