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engine disengages after vibration

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Iancole, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. Iancole

    Iancole New Member

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    Guys I have the first generation prius. It runs great and I love the car. This vibration issue is something I noticed too but recently I have gotten alot of problems. When I start up the engine idles ar per norm but then after a few seconds the revs seem to fluctuate, my battery indicator (HV) goes from a low level to full green bar in an up and down manner. The vibration sounds and the engine then seem to free wheel, and the revs seems to increase. Accessing drive mode does not result in the car moving. It just seems to be out of gear. I have checked from the aux batteries, the HV batteries, the ECM etc.. even the pedal sensors and cant find a clue. My investigations so far has shown:
    (1)no fault indications,
    (2)the turtle icon is on after a few seconds into start up
    (3)and the knock sensor seems to be the one which is picking up the vibration and sending a signal to the ECU.

    My question is this: is it possible that the transaxle is damaged or some other component in the coupling of the PSD and the ENGINE and MG1, MG2? I need help. Where I live there is no authorised toyota dealer, and the lots of mechanics here not familiar with this baby.
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Ian,

    I would say that your traction battery is bad. However the MFD should show either the traction battery or hybrid vehicle icon.
     
  3. Iancole

    Iancole New Member

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    By traction battery you mean the HV battery? I changed the AUX Battery but the problem is still there. But what do you think causes the engine to disengage and freewheel? Does that happen if your batteries are going?
     
  4. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    Any possibility of a loose or corroded connection in the high voltage system? I would expect that to be rather rough if the power transfers are being interrupted. Does the display use the high voltage signal or something else?
     
  5. Iancole

    Iancole New Member

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    The MFD Battery signal cct seems to stem from a NiMH battery charger in the trunk just under where the speakers are behind the back seats. There is some instructions on it but it is all in japenese. I believe the signal to the MFD comes from this unit. Maybe this is the HV control unit and charger. The high voltage connections I have to check a bit more closer to ans ur question.
    Before this problem occurred I noticed the batteries would be charging all the time. I was getting a full green bar but the turtle icon would still be on. The only side effect was that on accellerating the car would be slightly sluggish.
     
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Ian,

    The Classic Prius traction battery is the same as the HV battery. Normally the traction battery SOC gauge should read 50% or 75%. It is highly unusual for that gauge to show any other settings. If you see the gauge moving up & down quickly, that is a good indication the battery is bad.

    It sounds like you have a Japan domestic market vehicle. Are you sure that you have an 2001 NHW11 model and not an earlier NHW10 vehicle originally sold only in Japan? If the latter, all bets are off and you'll have to find a specialty forum to ask questions about that vehicle.
     
  7. Iancole

    Iancole New Member

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    It is the NHW10 but would it be much different than the 2001 NHW11? Anyway do you have any such links where I can get the info I need?
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Ian,

    NHW10 is much different:

    - OBD-II diagnostic tools will not work on that vehicle which has a custom protocol.
    - The hybrid battery consists of a collection of D-cell size batteries and I believe operates at a different voltage than NHW11.
    - No English-language repair documentation is available since that vehicle was intended only for the JDM.

    Suggest that you look at Yahoo interest groups; you may be able to find the group that specializes in NHW10. Good luck.
     
  9. Iancole

    Iancole New Member

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    Are there any other suggestions out there? The HV batteries are supposed to be the same as the NHW11 since it is basically the same car modified for use in the US and Europe. The Battery voltage is definely different on the the NHW12 and later models. I believe the variances might be limited enough to work around. I find it hard to believe that the HV batteries are gone, because this problem occurred too suddenly. There was no gradual battery failure in battery life. The car was functioning normal until the vibration issue and the engine start racing away after. The battery fluctuations only begin after the vibration shutdown.
     
  10. ea8631

    ea8631 Member

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    Just wondering, did you trunk are look like this.....?

    [​IMG]

    or this?

    [​IMG]

    if it is the second one, that's mean you have a NHW10 Prius and the link below are a speciality group for NHW10.

    Mk1_Prius : Mk1 Prius (Japanese export) global owners group.

    if it it the first one, then you have a NHW11 prius and I think your local dealer can fix the problem.

    ps: the situation sound like your hv battery are gone since I have similar situation on my 01 prius (NHW11) (but mine still drivable eventhough the hv battery are no good).
     
  11. Iancole

    Iancole New Member

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    :confused:Ok guys here is the latest development on my situation. I have been doing engine checks, and I have cleaned the throtle plate on the throttle, cleaned the crankcase sensor, and changed the knock sensor. The HV system was rechecked, no fault indications, no slack connections etc.

    The result is that the car idled smoothly for quite a while, a slight up and down change in revs at the beginning but leveling as per norm. The MFD would show that there was charging from the engine to batteries when the revs go up, and no charging when the revs go down. Which is normal indication of the MG kicking in and out. However, what I am seeing is they battery level going all the way to full green and down back to pink in a matter of 10 -15 seconds. After idling like this for about 10 mins, the engine revs go up and continues running but free wheeling, that is totally out of gear. The pedal sensor seem to have no effect on the revs.

    I did this several times and without the HV battery charger plugged in and I was still getting the up and down movement in the battery level. Why would the engine just disengage? My battery checks seem to indicate the HV battery is good. If cells are bad would the battery have this effect on the engine? Or is this a mechanical problem?
     
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Ian,

    What is your means to check the battery?

    As your car's design is much different from NHW11 I can only guess, which is something I usually do not like to do. If this were my car, my guess would be that the traction battery is the problem. I would disassemble that battery and measure the open-circuit voltage produced by each cell. However there is substantial shock hazard involved, and if you don't have the service manual to consult then you are really taking a big risk.

    If you were to follow this advice, I believe that you will find one or more cells whose open circuit voltage is much lower than the others. If you replace those cells you might solve your problem.

    As previously pointed out, you'll have a better chance to receive advice tailored to your model if you join the Yahoo NHW10 group, which primarily consists of NHW10 owners in the UK. Good luck solving your car's problem.
     
  13. Iancole

    Iancole New Member

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    I am presently considering to do individual checks on each cell. I think I have the resources to do so. But my biggest challenge will be finding a supplier for these individual cells. Mine are the NiMH type and each one is 7.2 volts, totalling 40 in all. With my model car, I have an inverter charger for charging the HV batteries from a 12v source. So I will try that first and see if I get improvement. So if you have potential suppliers let me kno. Also, I am wondering do I have to use a NiMH cell to replace that one or is possible to use the cells with different make-up such as lithium cells?
     
  14. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Ian,

    Yes, this shows another difference between NHW10 and NHW11. NHW10 has 40 banks of six 1.2V cells, for a nominal traction battery voltage of 288V. NHW11 has 38 rectangular modules, each rated at 7.2V, for a nominal voltage of 273.6V.

    The NHW11 battery case must be kept under physical tension whenever the batteries are being charged, else the modules may explode. I have no idea what safety precautions are required for the NHW10 battery.

    My suggestion would be that you determine which of the 40 banks are marginal. Then you will have to disassemble the bank in question and replace the 1.2V cells, which I understand are D-cell sized. I do not think it would be wise to mix battery chemistry and strongly suggest that you stay with NiMH.
     
  15. bobofky

    bobofky Member

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    I had a battery failure on my 2001 Prius and it exhibited the type of behavior you describe, but the display showed a Red Triangle with a white exclamation mark in the middle, a gray square with "PS" in it, and a car symbol with a 'X" on it. The check engine light on the instrument panel was also on. The difference of the display indicates that maybe your car is an earlier model. If your main battery is failing the car cannot be driven. When mine first failed, I could shut it off and then restart and it operated normally for around 45 minutes and the failure occurred again. I did this a number of times to get home and then to my mechanic. After that it got much worse.