CARB trying its BS again to kill plug ins.

maye the people in america need to show what a free country it is and form a new carb.

 

CARB has affected us negatively also. They demand extensive, read "Expensive", testing without regard for the costs that the manufacturers have to bear. In a weak economy, small business' are unable to take the risks that these costs will covered by future sales. Feels like throwing out the baby with the bath water. Somehow this feels very far removed from lowering smog levels in L.A., doesn't it?

 

Good newspaper story. I think it is reasonable for CARB to hold these aftermarket firms accountable for the impact of their modifications upon vehicle emissions output.

However I agree that the warranty requirement is unduly burdensome. As long as the consumer is aware of the reduced warranty term and accepts this, then no problem.

Finally, if CARB and these small firms cannot reach a suitable agreement, what prevents a given firm from moving to another state and selling its technology to residents of 49 states.

 

As a serious environmentalist with a green business, I absolutely agree that all firms must be accountable for the effects that their products have on the environment and the consumer. Common sense would also dictate that the mandating of testing without regard for the negative financial effect that the testing will have on business can't be ignored. CARB has a long and colorful history of finding solutions to problems (which they have, I admit) by taking the long, difficult road instead of the shorter, common sense path.

And yes, moving to a state other than CA passes through almost every small business owner's mind doing business here...

 

if your going to spend half of what a new prius costs at most for extra batteries then those batteries should be warrantied as long as the prius batteries.

thats my opinion.

when carb was forcing toyota to warranty the prius for 10 years, 150,000 where are those posts accusing carb of killing the toyota prius? i cannot find them using the search engine.

 

I totally understand your position Rigormortis, but the economics of a multinational automobile manufacturer and a vertical aftermarket manufacturer are not the same. I wouldn't expect the small vendor to be able to warrant his product the same as Toyota, and if I chose to use that product, that's my decision to make.

 

Actually, I've been looking at CARB as a potential future employer. Unfortunately for me, the supplemental experience exam would eliminate me as a contender for the jobs because I haven't had the specific coursework they are looking for.

CARB has a lot of work to do on heavy trucks and on stationary equipment to lower emissions. They may (or may not) be bloated like some other gov't agencies, but I don't think its time to kill them off yet.

 

The only time carb did anything independent was when they forced auto makers to build EV's back in the 90's. In record time, they caved in to pressure from the industry, and revoked their most important reg.

Oh wait, I'm sorry, they only 'modified it'. They let the auto industry decide if their was any market for EV's. Strangely enough, EVERY EV made, got snapped up (everyone knows the denial story of the waiting list of thousands) .... and yet the industry said there was no demand.
The rest, is carb history.

 

I have to support CARB 100% here. Just because a company is small doesn't mean that they should be able to sidestep regulation. Any company that sells components that modify vehicles emissions are required to undertake testing to prove that the vehicle still meets emissions regulations. This has been effecting the performance aftermarket for decades. The only thing different is that these PHEV companies are using batteries instead of superchargers.

This won't shut down PHEV companies either. They will use the same loophole that current companies use. "For Off-Road Use Only" These PHEV conversion will become "Race" parts just like all the fart-can mufflers on the streets now. Then responsibility moves from the manufacturer to the end user.

Those that say CARB is pointless are simply blind to what they do. The benefits from new regulations on heavy-duty diesels that reduce emissions 90% over the next 10 years are reason enough for CARB's existence.

 

2G Prius owners in CA (and other states adopting CA PZEV regs) should be very thankful to CARB for mandating the 150K mile emissions warranty that benefits many emissions control and hybrid system parts including the traction battery. The incremental warranty from 100K miles to 150K miles is worth >$1K.

Owners in other locales can thank CARB <not!> for setting up the AT-PZEV program that resulted in Toyota installing the fuel tank bladder and the engine coolant heat recovery canister in North American 2G Prius.

 

After watching the Nova story on A32 (I think that's what it was called), I'm surprised CARB hasn't come up with help for small business' who are doing the conversions. Perhaps they should have a talk with the Governator.

 

CA is in a >$10B deficit. It is the least thing they will give money to small business.

Considering the cost of certification is part of the cost of doing business, if you can't afford it, get out.

 

I completely agree that all vehicle modifications must be made in such a way as to preserve the emissions performance of the vehicle. What troubles me is that a small business after-market part must subjected to the same testing, certification, and warranty as a full scale automaker. It would seem to me that their is room for an intermediate class. You put the part on your car, you take it to the DMV, pay them $20 to smog it (like you have to every year anyway). If it still passes, you are ok until next year. When/if your car starts failing, you have to take the part off to get it back to passing. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Once concern is that many states adopt the CA emissions rules. What is at first only a problem in CA quickly becomes a problem in 12-13 states. In general this is a good thing, but not in this case.

Rob

 

It is the cold start cycle that the after market battery pack installation will alter the emission. The Prius is programmed to have only one cold start, afterward the ECU will keep the CAT is working temperature. The PHEV conversion keeps the ICE from running for long period of time, so when the ICE starts when needed again the engine and CAT is already cold, which will increase emission and exceeds the AT-PZEV limit.

The smog test station cannot perform this cold start cycle testing. Your proposal will not work.

 

As it always has been. Currently any aftermarket manufacturer must test and certify that when their part is installed the vehicle still meets emission requirements. It doesn't matter how large or small the company. Whether is it is a new cam, supercharger, air intake, engine chip, etc. Even the K&N air filter in my Prius had to go through testing. Unless a company is willing to do this testing they cannot sell the part for use on public roads.

You want to make an exception to these regulations because you happen to like the product. Lots of tuners would love to have exceptions for their superchargers too but it's not going to happen. As reported in the article, their are technical solutions to the emission problems that can be inexpensively implemented.

The only real issue is the requirement to warranty a battery pack for 10 years / 150,000 miles. The article said that CARB is willing to negotiate this part as long as the emissions issue is addressed.