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transmission hum gets louder as speed increases

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by vince31, Jan 12, 2009.

  1. vince31

    vince31 New Member

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    Hi guys, I wonder if you can help me diagnose the humming noise thats just started about 10 days ago from the front of my 2006 UK spec Prius. The hum is not noticable at all at low speeds but as the speed increases it becomes noticeable (around 35 mph or so) and gets stronger or gradually louder as the speed increases. the hum is not related to the engine speed at all as a quick accelleration to increase the revs of the ICE does not change the hum frequency at all. The hum resembles the noisy meshing of gears to me (I have a mechanical background) and reminds me of when the drive shaft bearings of my old conventional car started to fail some years ago. There are no failure lights on the dash and the mpg seems to be more or less the same as before although its very cold here in the UK at present so my usual 56 mpg has dropped to about 52. Mileage is 56K. I intend to take it to the dealer this week end but would like your opinions first.

    If you need any more info to help the diagnosis then please just ask.

    Hope you can help.
     
  2. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    A stone stuck in a tyre tread?

    Did anything at all atypical occur immediately before the unfamiliar noise appeared (service visit, different route home, new hearing aid battery, drive over a fallen tree)? Forgive me for asking but people sometimes leave out the darndest things.
     
  3. vince31

    vince31 New Member

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    The frequency of the hum is much higher than anything like a stone stuck in the tyre tread. More like a high frequency buzz than a clicking noise like a stone would give. I have checked the tyre pressures and they are all fine. The last visit to the dealer for a service was 5K ago where it had the 50K service, the brake pads replaced and disks skimmed. Its been absolutely fine since the service and the I only noticed the humming about 10 days ago (about 500 miles ago). No, not run over any trees or old ladies, hit the kerb etc, nothing out of the ordinary at all. The only reason I noticed it at all was because I had to turn up the CD louder than normal to mask what I thought was just road\tyre noise, but I travel the same roads week in and week out and thats why I know this noise is not normal. To me it sounds like something in the transmission, but I dont know, thats why I'm asking here, I just wondered if it was a known or common fault for the Prius. :(
     
  4. timm

    timm Medical Transport Driver

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    My co-worker and I both have 2005 Prii that we use to deliver the U.S. Mail. Both cars have developed an intermittent noise coming from the front end similar to what's described by the OP. I would say the noise sounds similar to hearing a propeller driven aircraft flying overhead. When traveling down a straight stretch of road... we can soften the noise by turning the steering wheel slightly to the right.

    Anyone have a guess? :confused:

    Axle bearing? Wheel bearing? U-joint? CV joint?

    Thanks
     
  5. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

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    well, i'm guessing since the prius is using a ecvt that you would notice a change in frequency if you revved the engine. Do you think you could take a video recording and upload it onto youtube so we can hear it as well?
     
  6. bedrock8x

    bedrock8x Senior Member

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    Sound like wheel bearing.
     
  7. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    If it is strictly proportional to road speed then yes, first check the wheel bearings and joints.
     
  8. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Don't want to scare you but one of the signs of a failing electric motor in the CVT is humming predominantly from right front wheel area iirc. But I believe it also throws a code too. Any dash lights/ check engine lights on?
    Please find member Bob Wilson and search back through his posts as he's discussed it many times. Sorry.
     
  9. VTMRGRTVL

    VTMRGRTVL New Member

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    I would guess Wheel Bearing. And it should be under warranty...
     
  10. EZW1

    EZW1 Active Member

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    I vote for the wheel bearing. Don't wait too long to hav e it checked, I've seen a wheel fall off when the bearing ceazed.
     
  11. vince31

    vince31 New Member

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    Thanks for the help so far, heres todays update: I have checked the wheel bearings for play, clunking or any signs of physical wear using the tried and trusted method of grabbing the top of each front wheel in turn and rocking the car as violently as I can from side to side, the bearings are rock solid, no play at all.
    I also tried shifting into neutral from a steady 50mph to see what happened and the hum still continued as before related to road speed (good news I suppose edthefox5 ? ). The hum does not change at all when the steering is moved slightly or even moderately left or right either (unlike the Mail delivey guys cars who posted above). Dont get me wrong, this is not a loud deafining hum, just a noticeable change from a couple of weeks ago. These are no warning lights or anything unusual indicated on the dash, lower fuel consumption, or battery charging activity. I will look up the posts from Bob Wilson as edthefox5 suggests to frighten me even more.:( Is a failing electric motor in the CVT covered under the 100k mile warranty?
     
  12. bedrock8x

    bedrock8x Senior Member

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    The modern front wheel drive wheel bearing are using ball bearings, they make noise even there are no apparent play. It has to be removed and inspected. There is a method to identify noise from the wheel bearing by jacking up the wheel. I will not post the details here. It is at your own risk.



     
  13. vince31

    vince31 New Member

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    Thanks bedrock8x. Obviously every bit of advice on any forum is used at my own risk, I cant sue you for that now can I! Any chance you could help me identify if the wheel bearings are suspect by letting me know your method? please! or anyone else?
     
  14. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Don't fool around with this critical safety related item. If you have to ask how to do it you should not be doing it. Take it to a dealer and have them check it all out. OK, now you may sue me :_>
     
  15. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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  16. vince31

    vince31 New Member

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    Thanks edthefox5 for the advice above, its nice to know I can still get good advice from some forum members at least! After 25 yrs of working on front line military jet fighters I think I know the implications of "fooling around with this critical safety related item" as some might put it.

    I will try the Temp difference test later and let you know the outcome, if thats negative then I will put life and limb at risk and jack the car wheel up (one at a time of course) to listen to the bearing noise.

    Update: OK been out for the high speed run (10 miles with cruise set to 80 mph) and the results were pretty much as I expected; all 4 wheels the same at just above ambient (its 5 deg C here in UK at the moment). I put my fingers through the wheel spokes and felt as close to the hub as I could and not the disk or brake caliper. So I'm pretty doubtful about the wheel bearing theory, but I will do the jack up test at the week end just to make sure.

    One more quick question though, when travelling along the road and then shifting into neuteal, do the MG1 and MG2 rotating parts stop rotating or change their rotational speed? The reason I ask is because when I do this it has no effect on the humming noise, it just continues as before.
     
  17. rusty houndog

    rusty houndog mountain rider

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    This starts now to sound more like a tyre defect. Look for a flap or slice capable of being opened at speed to supply the "buzz." One that slaps the pavement might produce "gear whine" noises but floppy ones in the sidewall are winners to produce such noises.
     
  18. vince31

    vince31 New Member

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    Thanks Rusty, I will check the tyres in detail for any defects.
     
  19. johnp

    johnp New Member

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    I'm going to venture in here with a suggestion. Check the car for any loose pieces of plastic that might be buzzing in the wind. There is a lot of plastic under the car as well as the usual suspects. Wind can make some pretty surprising noises going around or over an obstrucion.
     
  20. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Great you passed the bad bearing test! If the bearings are the slightest bit headed south they will get hot as sh*t on a high speed run.You would not be able to touch the wheel it will be so hot.

    I'm with Rusty too in that its probably the sh*tty stock tires. If there Integritys nothing would surprise me but you seemed pretty certain its coming from the trans what with the gear meshing sounds your describing.

    Tires: What are you running? My 07 Integritys the minute it got a little chilly down here in Florida at 15K miles really started to howl at 44 psi. I had to back them down to 38 psi to quiet them up. They were loud! At 38 psi the car's wandering alittle again and I took a mileage hit but I don't care because like you I notice car sounds. It sucks. I hear everything. Here's what you do. Either really lower front tire pressure to say 30 psi as a test or rotate them. At such lower pressure see if the noise abates. If rotating see if the sound goes out back yonder.

    CV Joints: Get under there and see if you got all the rubber boots intact.
    Look for grease leakage..etc. CV joints are usually good for 75K + but who knows. Failing cv joints are easy to identify as they make quit a ruckus and nice loud clunk up front when turning.

    And I guess get here up in the air and spin the wheel and see whats whats. Good luck.