Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diesel

I think its safe to say it's absolutely impossible if you're thinking you're going to get a diesel hybrid.

If you are talking about ripping out all the internals of the Prius, including all the computers, brakes, steering gear, AC, etc etc, and replacing it all with conventional components, it would be only slightly less impossible.

As far as cost to try it, I'd guess at least the cost of the car all over again.

 

All of the conversions to biodiesels (or high blends) have been from conventional diesel engines. While anything is possible, this conversion is undoubtedly simpler than for gasoline engines (not sure I've heard of anyone doing that.. diesel engines are much more sturdy) and I believe the cost was around $1,000, but I don't remember. .. I think I saw it on the news about a guy/company who is making biodiesel from used grease from resturaunts and converting vehicles. Was very cool... thou if our country was to confront obesity we could have a serious problem!!!!! I'm thinking deep fat fryers are very important to this cycle.

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

A. Biodiesel is not clean. Yes, you start with french fry grease or something but you have to add seriously toxic chemicals to it to make it engine ready.

B. Diesel engines require extreme strength and high compression. Even if you pulled off a conversion, the engine would tear itself apart from the force. Just ask anyone who ever bought a GM Diesel in the 80's. This was a converted gasoline engine that GM sold because they didn't believe it was worth developing a Diesel from the ground up in order to compete in what was a dying market. (Sound familiar?)

C. The price of Diesel is skyrocketing. Even if you pull off the conversion and everything works perfectly, your miles per dollar might even out.

Nate

 

The Grease Car conversion link you posted only works for conventional diesel engines. A gasoline engine would be quickly ruined, and probably not even burn at all since it's ignition and fuel pumping systems aren't designed for thick, non-explosive oil fuels. You'd have to replace so much on a Prius you'd be left with the body, interior, and wheels.. hehe. A very intresting link for sure - someone with a diesel car could probably get free fuel for life from their next door resturaunt!

This type of conversion just uses filtered, used vegetable oils with no additives, except an optional one to prevent bacteria growth if stored. It has no sulfur (new diesel rules will be lower sulfur) so emissions are lower than regular diesel, I'm sure greater than gasoline since diesel cars don't have extensive pollution controls. It also has a closed carbon cycle so in general has a favorable environamentl impact compared to conventional diesel. Probably will never be available for a large scale since demand could soon outstrip supply. The places that haul grease filter and resell it to industries - right now it's price is garbage but could quickly become an expensive commodity! This seems to be the problem with a lot of renewable fuels - usually conventional works out cheaper, especially on a large scale.... perhaps if we added the costs of healthcare from pollution, military actions to secure supplies, environmental cleanup, etc. DIRECTLY to our gas prices and electric bills (while reducing taxes) all of a sudden conventional energy won't look so cheap anymore! (end editorializing)

I believe (not sure) biodiesel is developed to be produced on a mass scale either as an additive (like 10% ethanol) or exclusive/high percentage blend (like E85) and is engineered to more closely approximate diesel fuel so engines won't need conversion (at least at the low blends.. not sure about high blends). I think it is more expensive, or maybe about the same now that diesel has skyrocketed. Everything I've seen has shown pollution is comparable to lower sulfur diesel, certainly not as clean as gasoline (though we all know lots of improvements in diesel are possible were a few lobby groups to mysteriously vanish)

 

Replacing the engine in the Prius would need more than a mechanic. You'd need an automotive and computer engineer to redeisng the entire thing. The operation of the engine is too integrated to HSD to allow exisiting components (ECU, PSD, MGs, etc.) These would have to be redesigned and replaced. MG1 would need to be bigger. I haven't heard of anyone doing rapid and frequent on/off of a diesel.. takes longer to start, so I guess MG2 would need to be more powerful to operate exclusively until ICE starts, so the battery probably needs more juice as well.

By the time you're done, you'd have eerything inside ripped out and be lucky to get the new stuff to fit (larger engine and MGs) It's not replacing an engine, it's designing a whole new car - whole new technology!

 

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Darn! Darn, darn, darn.


Has anyone heard of any shops out there that will retro-fit a current car with a hybrid engine?
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Toyota it's called the Prius

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

Why not just pick up a used VW Golf TDI?

The motor itself appears to be reliable with proper maintenance. Make sure the timing belt has been replaced, if those snap your motor is seriously FUBAR'd.

In the Prius the ICE, the CVT, and the HSD are so tightly integrated wrt software logic and hardware components I rather doubt you could "just" swap a diesel motor in where the ICE is right now.

Apparently, a GM subsidiary in Europe - Opel - will be introducing a diesel hybrid based on the Astra. That will be a diesel from the ground up.

 

I think that the power required to start a diesel is probably more than MG1 is capable of putting out. The Atkinson Cycle ICE in the Prius has very low compression at the start up and increases as the RPM rises. As such only requires very low starter torque. Just the opposite of a diesel.

 

Re: Engine Conversion ?? Unleaded Petroleum (petro) to diese

Since you seem bent on doing this, why not start with one already made. Bid on that Volkswagon and let us know how your dailey commute is - especially how often you need a tow or are late for work. :cussing:

A better idea, try a Prius+. That will be more green for you :mrgreen:

 

A conversion from standard diesel to biodiesel does not require ANY modification of the engine. There is a lot of misinformation about biodiesel circulating on this website, with some people believing that you need to make big changes in your engine. If you use biodiesel made to federal fuel standards, there is no problem at all; if you use homebrew biodiesel, you may have some plugging of injectors or gelling in very cold weather, depending on how precisely the batch was made. And, yes, you can make perfectly useable biodiesel in your garage from used cooking oil. My partner has been doing same for over a year.

One thing you CANNOT DO is run a gasoline engine on diesel fuel, or, in this case, convert a Prius to run on diesel.

Bob

 

Where has it been shown? You're forgetting that the major pollutant from fossil fuel is the addition of "new", previously bound up carbon dioxide; biodiesel emits only the carbon dioxide that was already present in the plant source from which it was made, and is thus carbon dioxide neutral.
Serious efforts are being made to introduce biodiesel into school busses because the pollution inside the buses is many times greater than outside, with a resultant increase in childhood asthma.
Transit systems using biodiesel, even when mixed with petro-diesel, have reported major reductions in maintenance shop pollution and mechanics' sick days.
Biodiesel is part of the solution, not a competitor with hybrid technology. There is no "One" solution to the energy crisis at the end of cheap oil.

 

I'd forget about converting a Prius.

I'd forget about converting a Prius. If you really want to convert to biodiesel, use an existing car.

I don't know where you are, but I where I am (San Diego) the local University (San Diego State University) has converted cars to various alternative fuels. They also built a solar car for one of those ecology races. I don't know which department and if they still do that sort of thing.

You might check to see if any of your local Universities have a program like that. You might ask if you could pay them and provide the car, then let the students have at it. You might even find a local High School Auto shop might tackle it, depending on if there are any classes left in your area, what kind of program they have and who the teacher is.

 

GreenJon,

Fantastic idea! In fact Totoyta should have installed a small, powerful, lightweight, quiet and fuel efficient diesel in the Prius to begin with. There are many diesels to choose from, I can only wonder why they took the weak petrol solution. Especially when one considers that my BMW 530d can get around 50 MPG in a spectacularly fast and luxurious package.

This can certainly be done, don't let anyone tell you it cannot, though it will not be easy or cheap.

For example, modern diesels are not slower to start than petrol engines, though they will require more cranking power unless equipped with an automatic compression release. Diesels are sometimes lighter than petrol engines when compared to like for like hp ratings, so you are not gaining weight.

I would recommend the following:
Source an Audi A2 three cylinder 90hp diesel from Europe and chip it to 110hp. This is the most fuel efficient ICE commercially available and offers 70 mpg, even before you add the electric boost from your Prius. This will likely be lighter than the current Toyota petrol engine and make your Prius faster to boot.

Engage an automotive software development company to work out the changes you will need to match Toyota's electric section to a different engine. There are plenty of them out there, see TDCi Performance Tuning at the bottom of this page. This will be an interesting challenge, but not overly difficult for a qualified individual, I know this because I am VP of a software company.

You will have to also have to have some machine work done, but again, none of this is rocket science. For example, you will need to match the output shaft of the diesel to the input shaft of the transmission, a disc made to mount the engine to the tranny and have motor mounts built. All easy stuff for any machinist.

As for cost, well you could pretty easily spend the better part of $10k, that's if you did most of the dirty work yourself. Of course it would never pay for itself in fuel savings, but what the Hell, this is for fun anyway, is it not. Besides, you'd have a much better car in the end and will have buitl what Toyota should have built.

Best of luck!