Headlight problem

I have said before and I will state again - I have yet to be convinced that these interminent failures of HID bulbs are caused by a fault of the bulb. Think about it - I have not seen any bulb that fails at one time and then at a later time will work. All indications are that it is a connection or ballast problem. Having looked at the ballast from the Lexus first generation HID system, I can say that if it is exposed to a significant amount of water - especially with road salt - the water will get into the electronics and short out the ballast. The solution in that case was to water proof the ballast with silicone around the seams - the ballast has functioned for over 150K miles.

 

You make great points....not too sure about the software thing either....I either misread the post or the other person was mistaken. Thanks for the feed back!

 

That may be why Toyota insists the ballast ("controller," they call it) must be replaced to fix the problem, not just the bulb. They insist they be replaced as a set when this problems arises.

However, if water intrusion is the cause, wouldn't Toyota have noticed this and modified the design to resolve it?

 

They may be insisting replacement to to rule out all and any possibilities... if they are paying the tab, thats ok.. but to recommend that for the dealer to do and then in turn charge us... thats wrong.

But anyone who has messed with HID's will know they are not like the typical filament bulb that breaks and occasionally touches again to regain connection.
They are filled with material that must be excited with tremendous voltage to initiate burning, then once its burning a much lower voltage does the trick... something around 70volts or so.
The material inside is not absolute... once impurities start doing their majic, they degrade more and more with more frequency of failure.
A "restart" of another blast of high voltage can get it going again... but in time.. it will take more and more "restarts"......... simply replacing the bulb fixes the whole problem.

Simply replacing a bulb would have zero effect on a bad ballast.

I have mentioned that its possible the ballast only delivers "marginal" maintainance voltage and as the bulb ages, it could start failing the fireup.

But it has already been reported that the D4R bulbs are "first generation" and I simply believe they are bad.

If someone was paying the full tab... I would have the whole works replaced just in case, but if "I'm" paying the tab.... I'm only putting in a bulb and calling it good.

So far so good... out of 4 bulbs, I've only had one start acting up again... I went back to an original bulb that has never failed yet to replace it and so far, its doing good.... but none of my ballast have been replaced.

Another point I keep thinking about tonight... I was miniature golfing tonight and several times the mercury lights above us kept going out. I'm sure all of us remember that happening from time to time on our street lights around our home or in a parking lot.
They cool off, then they will refire.... The worse they get, the more they flake out until they finally get replaced.
the mercury bulbs are very similiar in nature to HID bulbs in the way the fire up as well as how they stay lit and the gases and properties of materials they use inside.

If it was merely a bad connection causing all of this... simply turning off the light and back on would not magically fix the bad corroded or broken connection. Nor would replacing the bulb fix the problem indefinitely.

I have experienced bad connections before that responded to high voltage jumps and then would drop again once heat was built back up and resistance was raised again enough to block adequate amperage flow... but if this is whats happening... I would venture to say its all in the bulb and not external.


I did have a handheld HID light that started flickering from time to time but turning the light off and then on did not fix the problem.... not even temporarily. I later found there was a tad bit of grease on the connection that attached to the socket... after wiping it off, it worked perfectly... but again, that was my handheld HID.

I have noticed no such grease or corrosion on the back of the prius's HID bulbs. And it seems to be a universal ailment that simply refireing the bulb allows the bulb to burn again as if nothing happened... until it finally starts happening more and more frequently.

I'm not an engineer, but I do feel I possess simple deductive reasoning. It really does not take allot of book knowledge to see the obvious sometimes... and often too much knowledge can actually blind from the obvious.
I am also aware that having just a little bit of knowledge can make someone reckless and dangerous. But I have yet to hear a rational explanation from a skilled electrician,mechanic or engineer that can substantiate rational that says its more than the bulb causing this problem.

I'm not slamming engineers as I've always thought it would have been fun to have persued that avenue. But in any field, some have book knowledge, and some have common sense... and a few are blessed with both.

And the irony about common sense is that its not common.

 

I had problems with both of my headlights going out intermittently. The dealer discovered that the problem was that the computer running the headlights was from the 2004 model year while the lights were from the 2006 model year. He said that Toyota has specifically said that they are not compatible and this will cause problems. Since I bought my car new and never had the lights worked on, the dealer tried to work with their Toyota rep for them to take responsibility. The Toyota rep said that it wasn't their policy to install the incorrect parts and denied that this could have happened on the line. However, since I received my car on January 3, 2006 I think it is plausible that some of the early cars may have had the wrong part installed.

 

Seems I remember reading in 2006 was the first release of the D4R bulb that seems to be the problem, before that it was D2R bulbs..... again.... why does replacing bulbs instantly fix the problem if its the computer or ballast?

When some of those "experts" can't explain something, its fun to watch them do magic tricks and pull something out of their bottom side as a viable explanation!

Anyway.. if "Toyota" has released this information... I wonder why they would not also release a recall for all affected models?

I mean, if they are going far enough to admit there is a mismatch between ECU's and bulbs, why aren't they fixing the issue?

I'm not a bulb expert.. but I've chatted about them awhile now on candlepower forums and I believe if the ECU was hitting the bulb with too high of a voltage it would burn bright and clear until it died prematurely.
On the other hand, if the voltage was too low, I could see it failing to maintain the thermal plasma state needed to burn and fail but while still hot, be able to respond to another high voltage refire to get it going again.

Once the bulb cools "completely" down, it repeats the process.

Again, its not clear whether its an ECU or a bulb with impurities.

I talked with a tech and the bulletin released April of 2008 instructs the tech to swap bulbs and if the problem follows the bulb to replace the bulb "problem is, it takes days sometimes to see the problem again and catch it!!!", but if the problem stays with the affected side to replace the ECU and not the bulb. They are also supposed to check for loose connections where it hooks to the ECU.

I point blank asked him whether he has seen any instances where replacing the ECU and "not" the bulb ever fixed the problem and he said yes he has seen that, but its rare.
He also admitted he has sold "allot" of bulbs!

The dilemma we all get into is that the warranty does not want to cover the bulbs but will cover the ECU if bad.

So the labor cost of removing the bumper and accessing all the affected parts and running diagnostics are so high that its cost prohibitive to chance that its only the bulb. We are at the mercy of the technician as to what he says!

I think they need to revise the bulletin to say to simply replace the bulbs and only the bulbs, then if the problem still exist.... do the other... they would save everybody a ton of money.

Yet if Toyotas convictions are really strong that the ECU is also the problem, then they should be replaced with a recall rather than tormenting the customer with games of diagnostic turmoil and expense.

There is the obvious nagging question... if its really the ECU prematurely killing the bulbs, then replacing the bulbs will "appear" to permanantly fix the problem until you drive another 30K and the bulbs prematurely die from improper voltages hitting it.

Worse case scenario.... 69.00 bucks for two bulbs every 30K - 40K is not unbearable.

 

I have the same problem. I've had it for at least the past 10,000 miles (I'm at 47,000 now). I'll be going to the NHTSA website to file a complaint as suggested in an earlier post. Thank you to all. :cheer2:

 

This is my first post in over four years. Stats first:

2004 Prius
~70k
All the bells and whistles

A few days ago it was brought to my attention that I have the intermittent HID lamp issue on the passenger side. As described here it resolves itself by cycling the lights, but needs to be addressed.

I've read through this topic this morning and with deference to Windstrings and others will be ordering a pair of D2R bulbs forthwith.

The car is now five years old and has been driven with the lights on all the time. The bulb life I have experienced seems far better than many who have posted here (typically '06 models), but still far less than my '96 Avalon which has never caused me issues (halogen bulbs).

After I effect this replacement I will be okay if they go for another 5 years.

Again, many thanks to the forum contributors for their experiences and tips. From what I read the trick is to stay away from the dealers (whether or not under warranty) and replace the bulbs yourself. It sounds like budgeting $100 and 90 minutes of your time should resolve most situations. IMO any trip to a dealer is going to take longer than this - and likely cost you far more $.

I will report my experiences in due course.

 

Nothing personal against dealers.... but they make me itch and scratch! .... not that I don't anyway!

 

I've seen lots of "one-eyed" prius on the road lately. I even saw a Driver's Ed. car with one light out. My 06, has been ok with the Hids so far, though I only use them at night.

 

At 50K on a 2006,I had the one or another light out problem.
Contacted Toyota, they picked up the entire bill for bulb replacement.

Dealer stated prices have dropped to $150 per bulb, down from $300+.
Total bill was $405 with labor, no bumper removal for the installation.

 

DGH, was that installation charge for 2 lights ?

 

Yes, two bulbs and installation.

 

I registered my complaint with the NHTSA, using the above link (thanks ekarasko), and would encourage others to do so - As stated elsewhere, this problem could be on Toyota's nickel rather than ours if a recall were issued!

 

Now thats what I'm talkin about!..... now, can they offer a recall????

Because I"m really starting to wonder if there are "any" cars that are over the 60 - 70 K mark that have not shown this problem???
It appears, it Will happen.. just a matter of when.....

HID bulbs should last far over 100K miles.. especially if only driven at night like both of my cars.

Problem is, the only people who will frequent this particular thread are those with the problem.....

 

OK... enough of this foo foo.... I made a poll here

 

I went to the dealership yesterday about this problem but they said it wasn't there problem. Can you tell me who you contacted at Toyota?

 

Wow a dealer playing dumb, how shocking.
Call Toyota at 1-800-331-4331, and state your problem.
They should step up to the plate on this issue.
Please let us all know what they say.
Also please file a complaint with the NHTSA:IVOQ - File a Complaint

 

Driver side head light goes out, usually within the first 10 miles, 10 mins of operation with the lamps lit. I have to turn the headlights on/off and the work again. This process could go on several times over my trip to work (50 mi). I have the 2006 Prius with the #8 package and 120K miles. The cost is big ($350 part + 2.5 hrs labor ) to replace the HID lamps on the one side. So far I just keep turning them on/off.

 

LOL!.. that worked for me too until I got pulled over by the cops...
Those HID lights are so bright and having just one one can trick you into thinking they're both on.