To EV or Not to EV. That is the question

Yes, it all sounds supiciously like a cop out.

We get the EV switch as standard and I thought that it would come in handy for all sorts of things. In reality, I have not found any real use to put it to, other than to "impress" someone with how quiet the car is.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V8Cobrakid\";p=\"78241)</div>

The reason Toyota warranties the batteries (along with the entire Hybrid system) longer in California than in the rest of the nation is that California law states that all emission control devices must be warrantied to certain mileage / times. California considers the Hybrid system (including battery) to be an emission control system. If they wouldn't warranty it to the minimum required by CA, they could not sell the car here. CA law also states that any unauthorized change to the emission control system is illegal. That gives Toyota a very strong case for voiding the warranty.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Brent\";p=\"78318)</div>

Interesting for Californians. Possibly not so interesting elsewhere.

It'd be a case of how much money an individual could throw at a court battle, as opposed to paying to have the car fixed when the warranty is no good. If one assumes up-front that Toyota already has court decisions up its sleeve that say that yes, we can tell these people here that a function we built into the car is OK to use but those people there can't activate it themselves, then one could cave in to Toyota's will.

Or, one could wait until something goes wrong, and if that something has NOTHING to do with an EV mod yet Toyota decides that it does and voids the warranty, sue them.

Any preemptive move on Toyota's part, where they would collect mod-detecting techniques and have dealers identify modded cars during service calls and send warranty cancellation letters, would probably develop enough bad press for Toyota to not make it worth their while. So they'd probably rely on hit-and-miss cancellation and hope nobody affected has deep pockets.

I would *really* like to know what makes Toyota so touchy: it's like they know something about EV that they aren't going to tell the EV-enabled users and don't want to see come up in their US cars. Anybody asked them about auto-locking door mods yet?...

BTW, given that Toyota used to collect data from this site and nobody says they stopped, I hope they do realize they had better pick their fights carefully...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikepaul\";p=\"78354)</div>

Interesting for Californians. Possibly not so interesting elsewhere.
[/b][/quote]

Actually, I found this in regard to FEDERAL emissions control warranties:

What Reasons Can the Manufacturer Use to Deny a Warranty Claim?

If your vehicle is within the age and mileage limits for the
applicable emissions warranty, the manufacturer can only deny coverage
if evidence shows that you have failed to properly maintain and use
your vehicle, causing the part or emission test failure. Some
examples of misuse and malmaintenance include the following:

* vehicle abuse such as off-road driving or overloading; or

* tampering with emission control parts or systems, including
removal or intentional damage of such parts or systems; or

* improper maintenance, including failure to follow maintenance
schedules and instructions specified by manufacturer, or use of
replacement parts which are not equivalent to the originally
installed parts.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Brent\";p=\"78376)</div>

Thanks for the highlight.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book...ry&va=tampering

Then Toyota will have to explain why an option they provide outside of the US weakens or changes for the worse the emission control system. If I would be tampering, so would they. Perhaps they can explain that to their other customers?

Of course, Toyota could redefine 'tampering' to suit their needs, but I'll stick with my definition for now...

 

There's one other possibility. The US may not get the EV button, but they get a longer battery warranty than the rest of the world (at least in some states). Removing the EV button may well have been a material part of Toyota being able to provide that warranty.

If that's true, then if a US owner's battery failed after 9 years and they'd fitted an EV button, I think Toyota might well feel within their rights to refuse replacement under warranty.

(Oops, this has already been covered...)

 

Your post nicely summarizes my fears about installing the EV switch. I guess that we all need to do what makes us happy, but be aware that some mods may carry a future price should certain unlikley, unanticipated failures occur.

 

http://www.priuschat.com/forums/previous-v...r=asc&&start=16
seems to say that warranties aren't necessarily different between countries.

Anyone know of a quick way to compare battery warranties across all of Toyota's Prius markets?...

 

The same wear and tear on battery could be achieved by letting the car sit idle until battery gets down to 2 bars, where ICE kicks in. That is the extent of 'damage' EV switch could do.

As for CARB, EV would at worst do nothing, and at best actually improve it.

Although Toyota's language on their EV disclaimer appears to include simply having the EV switch, I do believe they were targetting mods like Prius+, where battery capacity and control were enhanced.

 

CARB, or the California Air Resources Board, doesn't really care one way or the other about the warranty. What they care about is whether an alteration of an approved emissions control system (such as they consider the Hybrid system to be on the Prius) has been approved (by them, of course) or not. The EV switch in question does not appear to have CARB approval. This, in itself, makes the addition of the EV switch technically illegal (at least in the state of California). My guess is that Toyota may grab on to that "illegality" as a way of voiding a warranty if a battery or control system goes south. It may not be right or fair, but I am not about to place my faith in an automobile manufacturer doing what is right if it means they have to spend a few bucks.

 

ah.. except EV is a mode.. so oh.. full charges and discharges past the normal operating range.. oh wait.. this car has entered and exited EV mode a lot.

either way.. when i get cash, i'm getting it.. if they catch me.. o well.. looks like i'll have to pay for my own battery in the long run. so far i've almost saved that much in fuel anyways

 

So what about using Toyota's own part? Japan Parts EV Switch

I am not too worried about warranty problems. Warranties can not be cancelled. Only specific repairs of items that Toyota can prove were caused by the mod. Federal laws were passed years ago to protect accessory manufacturers and service shops. Otherwise they could void your warranty for getting an oil change somewhere else or putting on an aftermarket exhaust. And even though CA laws are strict, they would never find this mod under smog testing. And the first test is 6 years from purchase for a new vehicle. So then just remove it and get smogged. Also, under Fed warranty laws, the burden of proof lies upon the Auto maker. Now, would I want to fight them in court or deal with them in any legal realm? No! But I would just remove the switch before a repair anyway.

I am planning on adding a computer to the car for MP3 and mapping with my GPS. I hope they don't void my warranty for that too.

 

I want to add the Mac mini Stock EV switch would be cool. Maybe i'll buy it later this month. I'll have to read again how to hook it up.

 

Yea, a Mac Mini, that way Toyota can't find it, and if they did won't know what the heck it is.

 

That's weaselly lawyer-talk. Yes, the EV button can't cause wear-and-tear that could be caused other ways, but for a given driver with a typical driving pattern, the EV button is likely to increase the depth of charge/discharge cycles, together with the load placed on the battery. Certainly in my case I only see 2 pink bars when I've been using EV mode; in my basically flat area the car otherwise would never let it get that low itself.

For warranty coverage, they're going to be concerned about anything that increases their likely payout. With all other factors throughout the population remaining equal, the addition of an EV button may do that.

Technically speaking, I don't know how much increased charge/discharge cycle depth affects the battery. It appears to be widely acknowledged that Toyota limited the range to 40%-80% to improve battery life, and the car tries to keep it within 50%-70% or so. With the EV button, you're liable to push it lower than 50% more often. I don't know how much that's significant, but I'm sure it is to some extent.

 

Seems to me if Toyota wants to void the warranty for EV buttons, they must also do so for everyone that runs out of gas, or drives with the car in neutral. Or lives in too mountanous terrain. Or drives too much in Reverse. These all do far more "wear and tear" on the battery.