Dealer Says Grill Blocking is Burning Transaxle Fluid

In the US, the factory-fill pink SLLC coolant is good for 100K miles. Subsequent changes are good for 50K miles; not sure what is the thinking behind the shorter intervals there.

I took a look at the Toyota Canada website and found the following language from the 2008 owner's manual supplement.
TOYOTA CANADA : Service

Replace Super Long Life Coolant initially at 96 months/128,000 km,
thereafter every 48 months/64,000 km

ENGINE COOLANT / INVERTER COOLANT:​

Drain and refill the cooling system using only Toyota Super Long Life
Coolant, to provide extended drain intervals. The original coolant in your
vehicle was engineered to last up to 160,000 km, however, contamination
through top-ups with water or other coolants will reduce coolant service
life. For Canada, an initial coolant change at 96 months or 128,000 km,
whichever occurs first, is recommended to ensure system protection. A​

qualified Toyota technician should perform this service.


I can understand Toyota Canada suggesting more frequent changes due to the colder winters there. Please do not confuse an individual Toyota dealer service dept's recommendations (which are likely to be more aggressive) with Toyota Canada's or Toyota Motor Sales USA's recommendations.

 

Let me ask you guys a question: Why in the world would you risk damage to a ~$25K machine by blocking the grill in pursuit of maybe a 2% gain in fuel economy? On a $20 fillup (9 gallons @ $2.20/g) a FIVE percent mpg improvement would only save you a buck. At 40 mpg (low) and 15K miles/yr you a buying $375 worth of gasoline a year. If you actually gain 5% (generous) you'll save $15-20 per year - maybe just half that. In year 1 after you by the foam, you may save nothing!

One over-heat or worn-out fluid in this case and any "savings" are vaporized.

Plus it bugs me from an ethical standpoint that these unauthorized modifications are removed prior to dealer visits so the warranty won't be voided in case they cause damage. thats cheating. If one wants the manufacturer to honor the committment to the customer that the warranty represents, then the product ought to remain as designed and manufactured, not subjected to "home-brew" engineering modifications...

 

A fair question but perhaps risking moving off topic and towards grill blocking pros and cons. An equal question is why is the Prius specification for Florida temperatures apparently the same for England, and if it is a risk to drive with some form of blocked grill in 5 deg C, is it not a risk to drive with an open grill when the temperatures reach 40 C (not that we see that sort thing). I get 62mpg (UK) in the summer and 57 in the winter with a grill block, and 55 without, so about 4% improvement but I don't have an EBH. I'd say that my Prius prefers the warmth of summer but you need to think about lights, water on the road, the use of the heater and more cold starts. I rarely see engine coolant temperature hit 90C (SG).

 

Hi Tomc...,

The main reason is commute distance. The car of course, is designed with sufficient cooling capacity to drive up in the thin air of a desert mountain highway in the summer with 800 lbs of load (driver, passengers, other stuff) at 70 mph continuously. Does that seem similar to your half hour morning commute? Its not like mine, where I drive on mostly level roads and the morning temps have been below freezing lately, with traffic limiting (and me too) speed. So, there is allot of extra cooling capacity in the car, that is just wasting gas to the average winter commute.

Aerodynamics studies indcate that 25 % of the aero losses on cars is due to the diverting of air for engine and drive-train cooling. Reducing that loss increases highway mileage. Even with the engine thermostat closed, the air is still flowing through the radiator.

Also in those National Labs papers, they did studies of transmission losses versus oil temps. And the optimum operating temp was suprisingly warm. I do not remember off-hand, but I believe its someting like 50 or 60 C. This is somewhat self limiting. In that colder transmission fluid generates more heat, which heats up the transmission. But a warmer transmission has more heat conduction losses, and the warmer fluid is resulting in less heat generation. So, that half hour commute is just reaching the most efficient transmission temps from a starting temp of 0 C. With a grill block, maybe its 2/3s of the half hour commute to get up to design operating temp. One Prius driver even has a transmission electric heater, which preheats the fluid prior to driving the car, besides an engine block heater.

Altogether, people have reported allot more than 2 % fuel efficiency gains for commuting with grill blocking in freezing weather. Its more like 20 %.

 

The issue is that this mod can't possibly cause the problem stated. The "cheating" is coming from the dealership end.

It is common for dealers to look to assign blame to things they don't understand. They are looking for excuses to deny coverage, not to be honest and ethical. Many can't even get the frigging oil level filled right. Do you think they can actually tell if grill blocking is causing trouble with the transaxle fluid?

Dealers at times actually tell people that running over placard tire pressure (but below sidewall max) will void their warranty. So do you think they are qualified to make any judgement on a more complex issue? No. Simply remove the grill blocking.

If I do something that damages my vehicle I eat the cost (and have before on other vehicles.) But I refuse to eat the cost for things that I know haven't caused any damage.

This of course varies from dealer to dealer. My current Toyota dealer I'll give high marks to while the one in Albany, Georgia is staffed by con artists and crooks. (I'll be posting about that eventually.)

 

wow... i guess our winters are not as severe... when i drove the Pri, i showed a good 8-10% increase in mileage. i did actually go an entire first winter without the blocking (didnt do it until early spring of first year) so i do know what the mileage is with and without...

in my situation. 75-95% of driving is city/urban...short trips, etc...all of which would destroy mileage under normal circumstances. the grill blocking helps to maintain what little heat is generated in those types of driving conditions.

when i first started blocking, i ran several tests that showed that nearly everything i did affected engine performance during cold weather.

one test, (very unusual for my area but probably common for many others) had clear blue skies, temps mid 20's winds 15-25 mph... all tests ran on same route. speeds 25 mph for 10% of route, 35 mph for 90% of route. one light. 3 stop signs. 2 roundabouts, 9 mile circuit.

observations without grill blocking:

average temp drops will sitting at traffic lights. 7 to 15º
time to hit 160º with blocking average speeds 35 mph: 5 mins. without blocking: 9 mins. (in mild weather typical temps mid 40's... time difference was 2 mins)

i also turned heat on (it was COLD!!) but only after temps hit 165º... time it took for temps to drop below 155º with blocking and moving, 210 seconds. without blocking: varied widely, but ranged from 45 to 105 seconds

couple things about "running temps" without blocking, the Pri spent only about 40% of its time above 160º after hitting that point initially... with blocking, it spent 90% of its total time above 160. all this was on a route that is not typical of city driving. the infrequent times spent below 160 with grill blocking happened because of traffic lights and on my course there is only one but its the main turn to the hospital so its a long one if you get there at the wrong time. with "normal" traffic conditions and lights, etc... the number differences would be much more severe. also my test was done with nearly no other traffic involved (easy to do on a Sunday if out before 7 am)

on the freeway or other trips longer than say 20 mins, temps hover around 195-205º.... without blocking, it hangs around 175 to 185... making me think that the Pri was more designed towards much warmer Cali climate and not winter at all which just makes grill blocking all that more recommended.

 

Are you the first owner of your Prius? It's good that you had the fluid changed now (at ~54K miles), rather than waiting until 100K miles had elapsed (as some members advocate.)

Regarding the special reason, let me offer a few possibilities for you to consider:

• vehicle was used for extensive towing or carried excessive loads
• vehicle was driven in very dusty areas or on dirt roads
• vehicle was driven for prolonged periods at very high speeds
• factory-fill transaxle fluid was less than 4 quarts; low fluid level resulted in overheating and fluid discoloration

 

ok hold up here guys... i work in the service department of a toyota canada dealership (won't tell you which one! but i have directed my prius customers towards this web site.)

TO my understanding Toyota changed the maintenance guide to accommodate all the models in their lineup, you just have to pick the right year.

Type WS is 72 months or or 96000 km, hahahah no way in hell buddy, i had a customer that had his TYPE IV fluid changed early (40,000 km instead of 60000 km like the schedule) and it was near black so I don't know man...

48 months or 64000 km for the coolant, they must be compensating for time in the 2004 schedule because the 09 schedule qualifies for 96 months or 128,000 km or 160,000 km or 120 months for some models, yikes! But that's for the first change, the first change somehow its the longest, then 2nd and 3rd changes are short intervals.

I do not know different strokes for different folks, in the end its up to the customer to establish a good relationship with the advisor (I always do, I'm running out of business cards before my other advisor co-workers) and determine what their driving needs are and what should be checked before being serviced. The guide is a start for when, but its up to the technician findings and the advisors knowledge of the car and customer needs to determine service.

Of course in times of economic struggle there's always that dishonesty, but my boss hates that shit. He's for the customer, and its been proven in Toyota Canada rating for choosing us #1 for customer service in October! Lol August we were rated the worst in the competitors for size of the service area.

 

so philmcneal......
should we remove grille blocking before we bring it into your shop or not?
does your shop have any standing rules to watch for these? As a PC member, you will obviously be aware of what we do to our cars to squeeze out more milage and make them more fun to drive.
Do we 'fess up can suffer the consequences or hide them and let you try to find them?