Taking a Stand on 2007 Prius AC Mold Problem!

I tried everything, and I called Toyota Cust. Serv. and they said they'll call me next week to let me know how we going to fix this STINK .

 

I just Toyota Cust, Serv. and they said the Rep. will call me next week , because my car has only 8000 miles. I'll let you know how they fix it(if they do)

 

NeoPrius
you may be hitting nail on its head!

you know, for 20 years i worked on all kinds of automotive AC systems, from Alpha Romeo to Volvo, I owned Maserati, Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, Saab, Oldsmobile, Chevy, Lancia, Fiat, and few others.
All of those cars had AC, none had cabin filter, NONE had bad smell comming out of AC. I remember that all of those cars would have a bit of smell when AC is first turned on but within seconds the smell would go away.
What is common about new cars? they all (or almost all) have air cabin filters!

prius is the first car with cabin air filter that i owned.
when my 6 months old prius developed bad smell problem i pulled out cabin air filter, found couple of shriveled and small leaves on top of the filter.
I pulled the filter out and smelt it -- it smelled exactly like the bad smell that i was experiencing lately when AC was turned on.

tomorrow I will take the air filter out and drive the car around without the filter.
i'll keep you posted.

 

how much water compared to OTHER cars should drip from the drain tube?
prius seems to leave lot smaller water puddles on ground than other cars do.
my car makes no or very tiny puddle on ground, is that normal?


BTW, has anyone tried shooting the e-coil cleaner/deodorizer through defrost vents or maybe from where blower moror is located? what about under dash on left side of car?

red arrows represent possible paths that we could use to access the e-coil.

i do not understand how can we shoot the spray from inside engine compartment next to hi and low pressure lines as those lines do not seem to lead inside e-coil housing but they end at expansion valve? (please refer to idem "air conditioning tube and accessory assembly" )

maybe we can run a plastic hose through the defrost or front vents right into the e-coil housing and then shoot anti-mold spray?

it makes more sense to use some other place to gain better access to e-coil than doing it from the firewall side.
ideally, someone who has a spare e-coil housing can find a safe spot on housing that can be drilled from inside the car?
or maybe we can use the front vents as access points?
I am just throwing some ideas here

 

I drilled a couple of 1/2 inch holes on the driver side of the case, about 3 inches away from the firewall. I first drilled a pilot hole, and used a fiber optic inspection tool to verify I wouldn't be hitting the e-coil

I chose 1/2 as this is a common electrical knockout size. So it's easy and cheap to get 1/2 knockout filler plugs at a big-box.

I don't recommend drilling holes into your case. If you happen to hit the e-coil header or one of the pipes, you're done. This also isn't the perfect solution, as you're not saturating the entire coil. If you're lucky, the disinfectant will work its way into the entire coil

There is a rubber plug at the firewall where the hi/low lines enter the bulkhead and go into the case. The e-coil is almost directly below. It's much less risky to pop the rubber plug, stick in a tube, and spray/saturate the e-coil.

I'd recommend a length of tubing with a 90 downward bend, so you can spray directly onto the coil. A common garden sprayer can be used like the kind you use for spraying herbicides and pesticides in your yard.

Never ever use laundry bleach, it will cause a reaction with the e-coil metals. I've used NuCalgon EvapFresh, which is EPA registered to disinfect e-coils. It's a "no rinse" formula.

Note: for my FJ Cruiser, the case arrangement is different. I was able to easily drop the blower and force open a blend-air door, and saturate the coil. That immediately cured the smell

With either my Prius or my FJ, there was no noticeable film or buildup on the e-coil. A lot of this stinky stuff is invisible to the naked eye

 

i agree that it is risky drilling holes into evap case.
BTW, why you do not want to saturate the whole e-coil?

are you talking about rubber grommet around the AC hoses that go through the firewall? i do not see a rubber plug!

i see

good advice, makes perfect sense. you do not want anything that can create chemical reaction.

it looks like that it may be possible to access e-coil from blower motor/cabin air filter area.

yes, this makes sense too. mold spores are probably microscopic.

thanks for your response.


here is an interesting article on curing mold problem in automotive ACs:

Phew…hey your air conditioner sure stinks!
by I.M. Cool
Appeared January/February 2001 Cool Profit$ Magazine
© 2001 All Rights Reserved
I could be wrong but I don’t remember cars of the 70’s and 80’s blowing out smelly air-conditioned air. It was in the early 90’s when I first heard my niece complain that her new Plymouth minivan had developed a rude behavior whenever she turned on the air. Now it seems to be a fairly common complaint. So much so that several vendors have jumped in with a variety of products that allow the technician to alleviate the problem.


Which leads me to one of the mysteries about this condition: why do auto dealers seem to be getting the resulting service business, and not the independents? (If you don’t believe that, ask the vendors who most is buying their product.) Certainly an answer is that most of the vehicles that suffer from stinky air are still under warranty at the time, a dealer gimme. Still though, this is an ongoing problem. Could it be that independent service shops feel guilty about this service, like maybe they’re peddling snake oil? Hopefully we can rearrange some of those ideas.

“Houston, we HAVE a problemâ€
(I couldn’t resist)
Condensation forms on cool evaporator fins and tubes and collects in the pan. Inlet air brings along contaminants like dirt, pollen and plant and animal debris, some of which is deposited on the wet fins and in the pan. Additionally, if a system spends much time in re-circ mode, it also gathers matter like pet hair and nicotine and tars from cigarette smoke. Another cause could be leaking evaporators allowing oil to coat the fins. Certain evaporators, housings and pans are more prone to accumulating these contaminants than others.

Armed with the nourishment (contaminants) listed above, the warm, moist, dark, environs of the housing encourage beasties (microorganisms, mold, mildew, fungi, bacteria, etc.) to form and multiply. Being alive and growing means they produce gas. This gas, a volatile organic compound, IS the problem: its moldy odor stinks.

Car manufacturers turned to professionals, so did I
The auto manufacturers turned to vendors to solve their odor problems. I asked these companies several questions to assist in preparing this article. Several of them graciously responded.

AirSept, Inc. provided a more scientific description to what I called beasties. They report that independent laboratories have identified Aspergillus, Cladesporium, Penicillium along with others as the fungi growing on coils and other parts of the system.

Problem vehicles
I asked the vendors which vehicles seem to be most affected. Four Seasons reported that while all vehicles are affected to some extent, their Tech Line receives the greatest number of complaints for the front wheel drive Daimler-Chrysler/Dodge family of mini-vans. The evaporator odor problem could be found in Mitchell-On-Demand Technical Service Bulletins for 1993 model year vehicles covering Ford (Bulletin # 98-2-7), General Motors (99-01-39-004, & 53-12-12A), and Daimler-Chrysler/Dodge (24-11-97).
AirSept believes that “limited under hood space in downsized vehicles, along with increased need for air cooling in vehicles with higher glass content, led vehicle manufacturers to reduce the size of a/c evaporators while simultaneously increasing the fin count. These more densely packed evaporators trap and hold more moisture.â€
Cliplight Manufacturing Company has no evidence that R-134a evaporators are any worse to foul than those using R-12. They point out that in fact, an R-12 vehicle will be at least eight years older and therefore likely to be packed with eight more years worth of contaminants.

The cure(s)
While many products include a deodorizer as part of their package, for obvious reasons we did not invite pure deodorizer vendors to this party. Legitimate cures for evap-stink are: 1. Apply a microbial and moisture-resistant coating to the coil to reduce the problem in the first place, 2. Clean the evaporator (and pan, housing, air inlet, etc.) and 3. Using an electronic timer to cycle the blower at certain intervals after the vehicle has been shut down. The latter action dehydrates the evaporator in less-than-humid areas, which stifles microbial formation.

Many manufacturers now install evaporators that have been coated with both antimicrobial and hydrophilic (i.e. water shedding—thanks again AirSept) materials. However, those coatings are not permanent. Once depleted, the evaporator can then become a microbial breeding ground.

Coating
AirSept Inc.’s Air Cooling Coil Coating is an aftermarket product designed to replace a coil’s lost coating, or apply one to coils without such coating. It combines an antimicrobial and an acrylic coating to the coil that is said to last three seasons in normal A/C use. There is a Pre-Wash product that should be used in case the system, plenum chamber or air ducts are cluttered with leaves and other debris.

Cleaning
Of course, anyone can perform a truly thorough job by R&Ring the evaporator, and maybe the heater, and manually cleaning them with a solvent. But how many customers are willing to pay for that service, especially if the system is otherwise working fine? An alternative is to spray the evaporator face and/or housing with an aerosol cleaner and let the liquid carry the contaminants down the pan’s drain.
To accomplish the above, all vendors agree that the coil must be thoroughly coated with their product to assure a good cleaning. Without disassembling the housing, there two methods to get product to the coil: 1. Removing a major component like the blower, its module or the motor’s speed control resistor, or 2. Drilling a small (7/16â€) hole in the case. None of the responding vendors expressed it, but in Japanese vehicles a certain foam product can actually be applied directly into the blower housing. As it expands it fills over into the coil housing and soaks the coil. These cleanings are said to provide protection from six months to one year from application.

The labor time to complete this project runs between twenty minutes and an hour plus, depending on accessibility to the coil. With AirSept’s Coating, there is a curing time of twenty minutes after application. The vehicle’s heater must be on high, but there is no other technician involvement. The customer’s cost mentioned by the vendors ranged from $60-100 to perform the service.

After the service, if an electronic afterblow module is not installed, be sure to advise the car owner that operating the A/C system in Normal Mode (fresh air) as much as possible will help to reduce molds, and odors, from reforming.

Offer the service!
Besides the stink, the threat of sickness and disease carried by airborne contaminants is a major concern worldwide. I found no claims that auto air systems were the cause of any specific illness. However, certain molds are known to produce mycotoxins, which can produce short-term and long-term adverse health effects in humans. These include headaches, dermatitis, recurring colds and flu-like symptoms, asthma, sinus infection, burning sore throat and more. Experts admit that mycotoxin exposures are difficult to diagnose because other diseases can cause the symptoms.
Also, and this is important, even dead fungi can produce these toxins. Allergies are common when air currents carry away the spores (similar to plant seeds). It’s the spores that do the damage when inhaled. So, don’t be afraid to offer an evaporator cleaning service to your customers. Besides getting rid of the odor problem, you may also be helping to keep the vehicles occupants healthier at the same time. Remember, where there is odor there is definitely mold. Where there is mold there is danger to people, especially young children suffering from asthma. Treat this condition with the seriousness that it deserves. Offer this service proudly. $$$
Editor: Thanks to the following contributors to this article:
• AirSept, Inc., 1155 Allgood Rd., Ste 6, Marietta, GA 30062-2243; 770-321-4826, 800-999-1051, Fax: 770-973-4826; Email: [email protected] ; Web: www.airsept.com; Product: Air Cooling Coil Coating, 2. Electronic Evaporator Dryer

• Cliplight Manufacturing Co., 961 Alness St, Toronto, ON Canada M3J 2J1, Ph: 416-736-9036, 800-526-7096, Fax: 416-736-9138; Email: [email protected]; Web: www.cliplight.com; Product: EvapClean

• Four Seasons Division of Standard Motor Products; 1801 Waters Ridge Dr, Lewisville, TX 75057; 800-433-7508; Email: [email protected] ; Web: www.4s.com; Product: #59052 AIRCO

• Innotec NA, 1745 Bonhill Rd Unit #3, Mississauga, ON CANADA, L5T 1C1, Ph: 905-565-1225, 800 981-9688, Fax: 905-565-1277, 800-543-6533, Web: WWW.INNOTECNA.COM; Product: Airco Clean Control

• Mobilair 2000, 5 Colomba Dr, Suite 167, Niagara Falls, NY 14305-1275; Ph: 905-542-8279, 800-538-6057, Fax: 905-812-1172, Email: [email protected] ; Web: www.keep-it-kool.com; Product: AIR REPAIRâ„¢
Soon you will be able to check in with “current†radiator and a/c industry vendors on the web at: www.imcool.com/buyersguide/.
Vendors: If you would like to be listed as a vendor to the automotive (and Heavy Duty) radiator and A/C service industry, please call, fax, email or fill out the form on the imcool.com web site. Look for Buyer’s Guide Data Entry Form.
Your cost to be listed on the web site and in the 2002 Annual Guide is only $12. For that, you also get a subscription to Cool Profit$ Magazine. In addition, your web listing will be maintained for free (name, contact, address, phone, email, URL, etc.). One heck of a deal.
Phew…hey your air conditioner sure stinks!
Phew…hey your air conditioner sure stinks!

 

When I wrote this posting, I didn't have my Prius yet. I was going mostly off of the Prius Service manual and my experience with changing my truck evaporator.

Since my car is so new, I don't have the A/C mold problem (yet). If you're going to try removing the air filter, I'd at least stick a piece of window screen or something in there to keep the bugs out. I've found that after driving through a few bug swarms, they tend to accumulate in the air filter (I just blow them out with compressed air). It is such a royal pain in the butt to mess with evaporator coils, that I'd definitely not want any bugs getting in there... although it was never a problem with my truck for some reason - maybe they just eventually pass through and drip out the drain tube...

 

i hear you.
yes, i would put a piece of window screen around a frame that would fit tightly where original filter goes.

I think that sice air inatake inside air cavity under front cowl does not have any screen/filter it is absolutely essential to have some kind of protection so that bugs do not end up inside AC/heater box.


BTW, i remember now that a moth ended up in my car the second day i had it. I was chasing the moth around and it went into defrost vent.
could it be that is dropped inside and it is causing bad odor?

 

that was poorly worded on my part. You *must* thoroughly saturate the entire coil

Yes that is what I meant to say. Again, hastily and poorly worded on my part

The FJ design is different, see photo

This will have to wait for a couple of weeks. I leave tomorrow on a business trip

 

I just got my Prius from the service, and as I was expecting they didn't find anything wrong w/ the car, they started w/ advices how to operate the air conditioning, they aren't admitting that this car has a problem.
So they told me when the smells come back and is strong I need to take the car to the service, and also Toyota Cust. Service is bad.

 

Fellow Prius Owners

I cannot believe how many posts I have found relative to the Mildew/Mold smell coming from the A/C Vents. It is terrible. I purchased my Prius 2008 model in April. I live in New York, and yes, it's humid in the summer, which is why I use my air conditioner driving to and from work. In the last 8 weeks, I have noticed a smell of mildew coming from the a/c vents. It matters not, if the recirculation is on, off, or if the temperature is on low or if I increase the temperature for a warmer comfort level. The smell comes, intermittantly, but when it's there, it's awful. I took the car 2 weeks ago to my Toyota service shop, who basically ended up deoderizing the vents, which I knew was a total waste of time. Naturally, 2 days later it came back. I did the lysol, ran the a/c, defrost, etc, as I have read in many posts. Nothing has helped. I have another service visit this coming Monday, as the "district" manager of service, is aware of this problem, and informed me that they need to put the car on a lift, and inject this foam stuff into the a/c from beneath, and that should solve the problem. Of course I will take it there Monday, but I am not hopeful.
I am reaching out to the Prius community for any help beyond what Toyota plans on doing. I purchased an extended warranty, but I am willing to pay them a nice fee just to fix this problem. What is my recourse? Am I doomed to have this stink as long as I own my car? I am distraught. You see, I purchased a VW Jetta, several years ago, brand new. I had this problem, there was no help from the Dealership. I ended up selling trading the VW in for a Pathfinder, took a huge loss, and now I find myself in the same situation. I can't afford to take a loss again, obviously, and I wonder if Toyota can fix this. Is there a way to have this fixed and pay for it? What must really be done to solve this problem? I appreciate any responses.

Thank you

 

I am new to this forum and appreciate reading about all of the stinky AC problems. I purchased a new 2008 Prius and had it to the shop within the first few weeks because of the odor. I was told at first that it didn't exist and the dealer conditioned the system which then gave me that horrid carwash smell which I did not want.
A friend suggested I go online (as she believed that it wasn't a unique problem) and I see that its pretty common, and not only with just Prius but other Toyotas. At the dealer last week my service fellow finally admitted it was a common problem which has no remedy.
Yes there are lots of things you can do to sometimes eliminate the smell but I have tried both circulated and outside air - neither guarantees total elimination - it sometimes happens and sometimes not. Only yesterday I found out that I get the smell when I changed the temperature setting (to less cool). I have 2 family members who own Prius, both purchased new. One a 2008 and the other 2005 with no problems - so its not in all vehicles but enough of a problem that Toyota should figure out what causes it and fix them. I am going to contact Toyota corporate about his matter especially now that I see its a more common problem than I was initially told.

 

If you search back I was complaining of this very bad problem alot with Jayman also last year. In fact it was the reason I came on this forum was for help with this issue.

But this problem is pretty easy to deal with once you take a simple suggestion.

After a few months of owning my 07 and in Florida my car really stank bad. I always used the air even in winter. Never drive without it. But not doing one trick really caused the problem to get bad.

If you don't follow this simple suggestion your ac will stink.

Here it is:

When you park your car turn the recirc switch from recirculate to fresh air. Thats it.

Here's the caveat though:

Once your car already stinks you must first hose out the e-coil either by using the system the dealer has which is to inject e-coil cleaning foam up the vent tube into the e-coil box or like jayman suggested go in through the firewall grommet area into the e-box and inject coil cleaner into the e-box which is the way I went. Works ok. Jayman actually drilled a hole in the side of his e-coil to inject cleaner. Now once you have cleaned that e-coil with specific coil cleaner if you do like I said (that many many posters recommended I do initially and they were right) and open the vent when you park the mold will not come back.

If your car already stinks venting the e-coil with the recirc switch does nothing:

See, when I had the mold issue many posters said open that vent and I tried it and it did not work because the mold was already on the e-coil but once I cleaned the coil and did the vent trick it has not come back. And my car really stank bad too. I'm a non smoker
and car is very clean. But that vent trick simply allows outside air into the e-coil box and lets the condensate dry as you are parked. You can open that vent a mile or so before stopping too but just opening that vent when I park has really fixed the issue for me. If you do not vent that box open to fresh outside air all that really wet condensate never dries and begins to mold.

About 8 months later still smells very good but I can very faintly smell mold sometimes. Very very faintly only when he air initially comes on. The car smells good though when I get in now. But my car really stank before and I have not been able to do a good initial flush yet. I did the spray through the fire wall trick with a bug sprayer bottle and used e-coil cleaner. It was before the dealer had the flush available. It worked pretty good but the dealer flush is better. I bought the dealer cans of flush for $25. so I think once I do that vent tube flush which I plan on this weekend I should be good to go from here on out. The dealer refused to do it for free since I was past 5,000 miles which is ok by me as i really don't want to let them touch my car anyway if I can help it.

Don't sell your car. There's a simple fix!!!!

 

Yes, the only proper way is to use an EPA registered fungicide/mildewcide that is also "safe" for e-coils. For example, household laundry bleach will absolutely eradicate anything growing on an e-coil. The bleach will also destroy your e-coil in the process

I use a couple of different NuCalgon EPA certified products on my home HVAC and in my vehicles. I've covered this before, but to refresh, here is one such EPA certified product that is also safe to use on e-coils

Nu-Calgon: Products: IAQ Assurance Program

Here is another EPA certified product that will also clean an e-coil that is mildly dirty

Nu-Calgon: Products: IAQ Assurance Program

However, if the e-coil is very dirty, as one would expect for an automotive application, you *must* properly clean the e-coil first. It does no good to spray in the fungicide if spores can safely hide in the dirt

This product is safe for e-coils, requires rinsing though

Nu-Calgon: Products: Coil Cleaners and Sprayers

This product I've also used, but prefer the Special HD CalClean. They claim no-rinse for the EvapPower, but I find there is a slight chemical odor afterwards

Nu-Calgon: Products: Coil Cleaners and Sprayers

Note the Special HD CalClean can also be used to safely clean automotive radiators that are loaded up with bugs and mud. Spray it on when the rad is cold, leave 15-20 minutes, rinse off. Absolutely safe around automotive rubber/plastic parts

To protect the coil once cleaned, NuCalgon offers CalShield. I use it on the outside A/C condenser of my home, and on the home e-coil. Am thinking of using it on my vehicles too

Nu-Calgon: Products: Coil Cleaners and Sprayers

Don't waste your time with OTC sprays that just mask the problem with perfumes

 

Toyota has finally issued an official bulletin on this:

Date: August 6, 2009
ID Number: T-SB-0261-09
Title: HVAC Odor
Service Category: Vehicle Interior
Section: Heating/Air Conditioning
Market: USA

Applicability:
2007-2010 Camry, Camry HV
2004-2008 Prius

Introduction:
Some Camry, Camry HV, and Prius models may exhibit an intermittent HVAC system odor. A newly designed evaporator sub-assembly has been made available to decrease the potential for HVAC odor.

Warranty Information:
This repair is covered under the Toyota Comprehensive Warranty. This warranty is in effect for 36 months or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first, from the vehicle's in-service date.
Warranty application is limited to occurrence of the specified condition described in this bulletin.

 

This is a great thread---thanks to all who have contributed--hopefully, now I can get this problem addressed by the dealer.

 

So, I guess those who have complained more than 3 years ago, are SOL

 

Not sure. I imagine a case can be made for a replacement, even if out of warranty, if there is documentation with the dealer that you complained of this problem during a service appointment that took place during the warranty period.

 

Thank you very much. Are the details of this bulletin available to read anywhere else but here? I am so happy to have read your post.

Thank you

Linda

 

I got this bulletin from someone who works at Toyota Corporate. The husband of a friend who heard me complain of the Prius mold problem. I can't find it online. I imagine you can eventually get it at alldatadiy.com if you're willing to pay for a subscription there.