GM: Prius is a stripped-down Corolla. The Volt is drastically different.

I disagree with the initial impressions by usbseawolf. The author is apparently one of those that still doesn't get it based on this line "Most cars in the $40,000 class get to 60 in well under eight seconds." He neglects to mention that there are no cars in the 40,000 dollar range that can do what GM is trying to get this vehicle to do. Overall, he makes a lot of good points but I still think the author missed the boat

:der:

 

I think he's pretty on the money. GM started by pitching an edgy, high performance car with 40 miles of electric range and 50mpg after that for $30k. The Volt is now a ho-hum 4 seat compact sedan, with 33 mile range, some reports of as little as 30mpg after that, almost as little performance as the Prius, and a $40k or greater price tag. At $20-25k it might be a good economy car. At $40k or higher I don't know who will buy it beyond the diehard fans, even with the tax credit.

I do have to disagree with USB's 35% of mileage data though. The raw number is I think correct, but the interpretation in the original source is suspect. My understanding is that in the US we currently drive 3 Trillion miles per year. Roughly 1 Trillion of those miles are spent commuting. I think thats where the 1/3 or ~35% number comes up. However the 3T miles includes all vehicles, for all purposes. Commercial light duty vehicles and the transportation sector would take a big chunk out of that, but I'm not sure how big. I want to say its almost half, but I can't prove that at the moment. My recollection is that for the average person, somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-90% of their mileage is daily trips of 33 miles or less. I can't prove that at the moment either though.

I personally do believe that PHEVs will make a substantial impact in most peoples fuel consumption, and in our overall light duty fuel usage. They won't be the answer for all people or all sectors though.

Rob

 

Here are a few stats from a post I made a while ago:

Americans drove over 3 Trillion miles in '06:
Americans Drove More Than 3 Trillion Miles in '06 | Occupational Health & Safety

Indication that 3T miles is all vehicle types:
BTS | Table 1-32: U.S. Vehicle-Miles

Average miles driven per person per year ~13,500 in '03 (closer to 15,000 now I think):
Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group

Average Trip Length, Speed 12 miles at 32mph (2001):
Highway Statistics 2006 - Number of Vehicle Trips by Time of Day - Table NT-3

Commuter numbers, 27% of all miles from commuting, 2.3B gallons/yr of fuel wasted sitting in traffic:
BWC: About the Program - About Best Workplaces for Commuters

Average commute length 22-28 miles RT:
Highway Statistics 2006 - Average Vehicle Trip Lengths - 2006 - Table NT-5

National Household Travel Survery:
Section VII: National Household Travel Survey - Highway Statistics 2006 - FHWA

National Transportation Statistics:
BTS | National Transportation Statistics


There is in general a whole lot of data to look at on this subject, not sure what it all means yet.

 

Here's a wag at some numbers based on the above. If the average person lives in the burbs, and commutes 28 miles RT, and drives 13,500 miles per year:

28 miles per work day * 50 weeks * 5 days/ week = 7000 commuting miles per year

7000 commute miles / 13500 ttl miles = 52%

Remaining 6500 miles per year will be mix of short and long range driving, don't have data to determine mix. If long trips account for 50% of remainder, the 3250 would be divided up between weekday non-commute, and weekends. If we assume same average miles per day for weekday and weekend:

7000 commute miles + 3250 non-long trip miles = 10250 / 365 = 28 miles per day average.

3250 long trip mileage / 13500 ttl mileage = ~25%

From that I would say that the average commuter would reduce their fuel consumption by ~ 75% with a PHEV28.

If commuting represents 27% of 3T miles per year, that would be 810B miles.

810B miles / (28 miles per day * 50 weeks * 5 days/week) = 115.7M commuters

115.7M commuters * 28 miles per day * 365 days/yr = 1.18B miles per year = 39.3% of all miles driven by commuters (not just miles commuting).

So what I think we could say, is that 40% of the vehicle miles traveled in the US would have their fuel economy improved by 75% on average with a PHEV28. The remaining 60% would be private individuals who do not work and commercial vehicles. At this time I don't think we have data to gauge the impact on that segement.

Does any of that make sense?

Rob

 

This is a perfect example of why Gm is where they are today. Until this Prius, I faithfully bought their cars. Problem with these guys is that they have their heads way up their ....... Well, you get the idea. Right now they can take the chevy volt and shove it. I'm driving the prius and saving fuel TODAY.

 

dwreed3rd,

I am not as young as you think. We are talking 60's Japanese products not early 50's. So get your time line correctly.

Japanese adopted Dr. Demings quality control in the late 50's but American companies refused and so is today.

W. Edwards Deming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Look! You can be as snarky as you want. It still does not change the the facts. It was mid '60s because I met my wife to be in March '63. Her father bough the car shortly after we met. It had one problem after another. Left him stranded a number of times. Parts would break. It would be in the shop for extended periods of time, waiting for parts. And was totally unreliable, which he could not afford, since he worked 7 days a week, swing shift. Perhaps it was a lemon. If so, then they must have shipped all the lemons to his dealer , since others that bought them at that time were having similar problems. Or perhaps a service problem, like with the Prius, trying to find good dealer service. My buddy had a Simca, roughly the same vintage, drove it had, and had less problems with it. I realize this is one experience and Red Lion, PA. is out in rural PA, but the fact is, that is was contuously breaking down and the dealer had trouble getting parts and/or getting it repaired. It wasn't a Toyota dealer in those days, but the only dealership in the area that had the franchise, or whatever the correct term was back then. I drive it on several occasions. It was tinny, poor quality workmanship, and by far the least quality car that I have ever driven in my life. Even our Ford Fiesta was a much better quality car. I ended you selling him my '61 1/2 VW beetle which he loved and provided reliable transportation to him for a number of years. So while your experience may have been different, I don't know who you think you are telling me to get my time line straight. It was either a '64 Gen II or '65 Gen III. It was a piece of CR*P. And our 2000 Avalon is, by far, the best quality car I've ever owned. The results of the change for Toyota made it to the market somewhere between '64/'65 in rural PA. and before 2000 in metro Atlanta, from my experience. Your results vary have varied.

 

Here is the time line:

Great Cars | TOYOTA HITS 50 IN THE UNITED STATES | Toyota, First, Hybrid, America, Vehicles


It wasn’t the first time that Toyota had trouble in America. The spirits of success were not pleased when company officials chose Halloween night in 1957 to open the doors on the first showroom in North America.

The ghosts and goblins were out that night as a small band of Toyota executives waited for customers to come trick or treating and leave with one of their new Toyopet Crowns. The cars were as unfortunate as their name implied.

Popular as a Post War taxi in Tokyo these underpowered and undersized vehicles earned no respect. The Hollywood, California based dealership was only able to palm off a couple of hundred before the home office decided to stop selling the cars and rethink their American strategy.

They kept selling Land Cruisers while they worked on developing a car that could establish a beachhead in America.
In 1965, after spending seven years “studying the needs of American drivers,†the Corona was making its way across the Pacific. The gradual process of weaning Westerners off their addiction to the Motor City’s bloated land yachts had begun.




Can you name the model of the Crap car you have? There is no such thing as gen II or gen III. Toyota did not sell any passenger cars between 60-65.

 

If you read my post. First, it was not my car, but my fiancee's father's, and second, he got rid of it, back in the '60's because it was unreliable.

You should email Toyota.com and have them correct their history site. Or perhaps it is a fake site.

Toyota history

The first Americanized Toyota — the Tiara, otherwise known as the Toyota Corona PT20 — came out in 1964. The six-passenger car had a 90 gross-horsepower engine (probably about 60-70 bhp net); it could reach 90 miles per hour, and was comfortable inside. One year later, the Corona was added at under $2,000; it offered an automatic and factory air as options, very unusual in imported small cars at the time (as was the engine's horsepower rating). Sales hit 6,400 in 1965, and reached 71,000 by 1968, nearly doubling each year until by 1971 Toyota was selling over 300,000 vehicles per year, a far cry from 1964's 2,000. Toyota itself was very small in the late 1950s by world standards, and in 1963 was the 93rd largest non-American corporation in the world — but in 1966 was already 47th (in that time it went from being the 9th largest Japanese corporation to the 6th largest, and for that matter the tenth largest auto manufacturer in the world — it would steadily move up to the #3 position and will soon challenge Ford for #2). In 1967, the Corona sold for a reasonable $1,760 - a little below the smallest Big Three sedans — with a good balance of performance, gas mileage, and comfort.

P.S. I apologize for using the Gen terms. They were used in the Wikedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Corona article, but unsubstantiated. That;s why I did not originally use the article, but I should not have used the terms. I was trying to address the different stages. But I was definitely one of these two.

Generation 2 (1960-1964) T20/T30 series

Second GenerationAlso calledToyota 1900
Toyota TiaraProduction1960 - 1964AssemblyMotomatchi, Toyota City, JapanBody style(s)4-door sedan
3-door station wagon
2-door pickupLayoutFR layoutPlatformPT20 / RT20L / RT26LG / RT30LEngine(s)1.0L (997cc) P
1.5L (1453cc) R
1.9L (1897cc) 3RWheelbase94.5 in (2400 mm)Length157.1 in (3990 mm)Width58.5 in (1486 mm)Height56.5 in (1435 mm)Curb weight980 kg (2161 lb) sedanRelatedToyota Corona
The Tiara was a series of sedan models sold by Toyota Motor Corporation, as an export model of the Toyota Corona. It was introduced at a critical time for the company in North America. Their first flagship car, the Toyopet Crown, was unsuccessful in the US market, and was withdrawn, leaving only a single vehicle, the Land Cruiser. At the time, there was little market for an off-road vehicle like the Land Cruiser.
The Tiara was supposed to sell alongside the Crown, as a smaller companion. Introduced in 1960, the car was powered by a 1.0 L P series motor. In 1961, Toyota introduced a more powerful 1.5L R series motor, the same motor from the Crown; an even larger 1.9 L engine was added in 1964. Fortunately for Toyota, the problems with the Crown were not seen on the Tiara, and the lighter body (400lbs less than the Crown) was sufficient for the R series engine.[citation needed] The Tiara station wagon was more popular for women.[citation needed] But nevertheless, it sold better and had a lot less mechanical problems.[citation needed] The Tiara ended up being the only sedan sold by Toyota until the reworked second-generation Crown appeared. By that time, the Tiara had been redesigned and given the Corona label from the Japanese domestic market. A total of 318 of the vehicles were sold in the US.

Perhaps why parts and skilled service may have been scarce in south cental, rural, Pennsylvania, if it was a Tiara.




Generation 3 (1964-1969) T40/T50 seriesThird generationProduction1964-1969AssemblyMotomatchi, Toyota City, JapanBody style(s)4-door sedan
2-door hardtop coupe
3-door station wagon
2-door pickup
5-door hatchbackLayoutFR layoutWheelbasesedan 59.3 in (1506.2 mm)
coupe 59.3 in (1506.2 mm)Lengthsedan 162.4 in (4125 mm)
coupe 162.4 in (4125 mm)Widthsedan 61 in (1549.4 mm)
coupe 61 in (1549.4 mm)Heightsedan 55.9 in (1419.9 mm)
coupe 54.1 in (1374.1 mm)Curb weightsedan 2140 lb (971 kg)
coupe 2205 lb (1000 kg)
The 1964 release third generation, slant nose apart, was known for its range of bodystyles on offer. Aside from the sedan, variants included a 3-door station wagon, two pickup variants, one of which had an extended cab with an canopy and a 5-door hatchback, which looked reminiscent of a Renault 16.

I belive sales were around 2000 in '64 and 6400 in '65, but I'm not positive.