The opening Priuschat Forum lead article about gasoline additives is a bit disengenous. The gist of the article is that many major gasoline suppliers are not adding enough detergents to the gas which is causing engine fouling. There is some rating system called "Top Tier", which allegedly rates gasoline brands in terms of their engine cleaning power. Unfortunately, there is no such listing in the article, only some confusing and ambiguous statemenst from/about a few major oil companies. A followup "readmore" link turns out to be an ad for Shell gasoline, which, as you might have guessed, is the leading brand in cleaning additives. Is this just more advertising hype disguised as research, or is it a legitimate issue? I've heard a lot about gaoline additives over the years: Chevron has been touting "Techron" for ages. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought of gasoline much like toothpaste; all the name brands are probably ok and the differences between them are nowhere near what their company hype would have you believe. Is this true? What brands do you use, and why? I alternate between using Shell which has a station a block from my house, or ARCO, which as a station very near where I work. The price difference is 20 cents a gallon, which is less than 2 bucks for HUMU's normal 8 gallon fillup. The price difference is not an issue for me, so if there is another compelling reason beside price, to use Shell over ARCO, I'd be interested in hearing it. Thanks, B
I just use the cheapest. Around here, that's Diamond Shamrock (Valero). Like much of the country, all the gas sold in Tucson comes in the same big pipe, so it hard to convince me that the other brands are worth the extra money. Thanks, Shawn
Gasoline is one of the more unstable liquid out there. It's volatile, so the lighter aromatics go away leaving nasty residues behind. The chemical soup we call gasoline is remarkably unstable. Some of the additives used to minimize intake valve deposits can actually lead to increased piston ring land deposits. Or an additive designed to clean fuel injector tips may lead to increased soft deposit formation in the piston crown land. Too much additives may dramatically reduce the life of the O2 sensors and catalytic converter. That said, with proper care and a bit of common sense, there is no reason why you can't expect 100,000 miles of performance and emissions within new specs. Constant Interstate driving is the very best for the motor, as it's always at its optimum temperature and there is plenty of turbulence in the induction system to help keep things clean. The absolute worst driving is the kind I do: constant city traffic, speeds usually below 70 km/h, and operation in cold temps down to -40. So my motor will eventually need a bit of help. I've had very good luck with the Chevron Techron additive and also the STP Complete cleaner. However, more is *not* better. Follow the directions, I wouldn't add it more than once every 10,000 miles. It's also a good idea to add the cleaner around 300 miles before your next scheduled oil change. The cleaner will knock deposits off the injectors, intake valves, crown land, and ring land. Most of that crap ends up in the oil. It also helps to avoid metallic gasoline additives like MMT. Oops, that's about all you find in Canada. I suppose that's why Toyota will generally not warrant an O2 sensor up here beyond 36,000km or 3 years.
The Top Tier Gas program (which has been discussed here numerous times before), is not a creation of the Fuel Companies, nor is it hype. In fact, the Fuel Companies absolutely hate it with a passion. The Automobile Manufacturers have been saying for years that modern cars need more cleaning additives in the fuel. In fact, the amount of required additives has dropped in recent years, resulting in more fouling problems in today's tighter tolerance engines. The EPA has a minimum regulatory standard set, which is what Fuel Companies have followed. That is, they have followed it for their Regular grades. The Fuel Companies have put more cleaning additives in their Premium Grades, and attempted to sell them for more money because of their cleaning properties. The Auto Manufacturers kept asking the Fuel Companies to add a reasonable amount of additives to all grades, with no success. So, they banded together to create the Top Tier program. It was started by GM, Honda, Toyota and BMW to recognize Fuel Manufacturers who agreed to put an adequate amount of cleaners in every grade of gasoline they sell. Slowly the Fuel Makers are being dragged kicking and screaming into the fold, though there are still some holdouts. You can check on the list of companies that have signed up here: http://www.toptiergas.com
BALDERDASH... that link looked like a blatant Shell commercial. I use a blend of the better price and the convenient station without major emphasis on brand.
Empirical tests (OK, me stopping for gas wherever I felt like it at the time) show that Shell and other high-detergent gasolines have not done as well MPG-wise on a consistent basis as a Citgo that has solid un-watered tanks. I say that because a couple of Citgo stations are now on my no-buy list after HORRIBLE MPGs after getting gas there, while one that's justa little out of my way hasn't done me wrong yet. Now, if I'm the only person to see a problem with Shell, that doesn't mean there's NO problem...
BTW, that test document is a really interesting read if you like that sort of thing. A few tidbits: must have 8-10% ethanol, must be proven to foul injectors before adding detergents, most components must be derived from standard fuel stock.
according to a guy i know who drives a gas truck, unleaded regular is the same for all brands of gas. the higher priced grades have additives added to the gas for different blends. according to him, what ever gas is put in at the ports (and only a few companies port in this area and even fewer refineries process the stuff, but we have the full range of gas choices) is alloted to the company that puts it in, but instead of putting gas in at another port like Long Beach Ca, the company will trade gas with someone else and put in X amount here for the same in their name in Long Beach. obtw, although they deliver dozens of different brands of gas, the name of the company is not any major brand but they are just a storage facility anyway.
Well, I see folks point of view, but I see very few people who actually say they went to www.toptiergas.com AND actually READ IT. I have, and I find it no small coincidence that low grade Shell (regardless of which city I get it in) performs as well or better than any other brand I have used. Maybe I'm the crazy one, but 45 MPG (highway) in 20 - 30F weather seems okay by me. Larry
From what I understand, Shell was just recently listed as TopTier, so they can't be the ones that came up with TopTier.
From what I see here, no one who has actually read the Top Tier information has claimed that Shell started it. In point of fact, BMW, GM, Honda and Toyota did. I simply have to use Shell as it is the only one listed that I can find on a regular basis in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana. There are the occasional Chevron's, but not nearly as many as Shell. Perhaps I will give Chevron a try the next time around. It just happens that Shell is a part of the Kansas City Star press release that others are talking about. Regards, Larry
interesting site i must admit... but why doesnt Toyota mention it?? can anyone find a place where Toyota recommends "top tier" gas for its vehicles. if they sponsored this as the site implies then i would expect them to say so on their own site. to be honest with you, the website i visited i could have put up in less than a day. i have to have more verification of this. simply too much crap on the net
Fortunately I get my gas at QuickTrip here in AZ, so I'm getting "said gas". It does concern me that the test page state that there's no "LESS" than 48mg/kg of sulfur in the fuel. I thought sulfur was bad for catylitic converters, etc. - if so, why have any at all?
good question Rick and the level you mentioned seems pretty significant. there is a cost factor anytime you are removing an element from any substance and maybe that is the level where it becomes cost prohibitive. i guess the real question is "what level of sulphur is acceptable before damage can occur?"
I don't think it's a stretch to say that the ramifications of Toyota (or Honda, GM or BMW) actively promoting Top Tier could be inconvenient. How many dealers around the world have fuel discount agreements with non Top Tier suppliers to put fuel in the cars for demo use? How many executives would want their company name and logo actively promoted with their competitor, even though they agree in prinicple about the quality of the gasoline? Even if the above two items were not issues, what would the legal ramifications be of actively promoting something that basically directs people away from a large segment of a competitve, necessary product? I do not have the answers either, I just know that the Shell gas works darn good in my baby and that I will try Chevron soon as well. Here are a couple more links for everyone: www.techrononline.com/world_techron.htm www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/12/17/306647.html www.gm.com/company/gmability/environment/fuel_economy_emissions/emissions/detergent_021105.html motortrend.com/features/news/112_news49/
Bigsk8r; you do bring up a good point to ponder. corporate sponsorships on any level is never taken lightly and im sure Toyota would be hesistant to name names. i also notice that this top tier gas seems to be a relatively new occurance. maybe Toyota is waiting for the company shakeout on the volunteer end before they make the general recommendation of this product i did some interesting info at Toyota's site so it was not a waste of time
Here's some Press Coverage: Note the fact that the Fuel Industry, including API is very grumpy about it http://www.sfrcorp.com/notice.asp?NoticeID=4 http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/a...0,823307.column http://www.imakenews.com/flashpoint/e_arti...le000253616.cfm http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/dec04/283160.asp GM seems more public about it - I think I posted the Toyota Press releases for it at the time, but I find their Press Site very hard to search. http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/enviro...ent_072104.html http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/enviro...ent_092704.html Chevron was the first certified in the US: http://www.chevrontexaco.com/news/press/20.../2004-06-17.asp And, Chevron is certified in Canada too http://www.chevrontexaco.com/news/press/20...004-12-17_1.asp Here's a post that if true, is amusing: http://www.motorhomemagazine.com/cforum/in...6105/page/2.cfm I pretty much believe it. If you have to guarantee a car for 100K miles of emissions compliance, it makes perferct sense to me that you wouldn't want bad fuel messing you up.
