1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

IAT resistor

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by Grashwi, Jul 31, 2008.

  1. Grashwi

    Grashwi New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    8
    0
    0
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    I'm going to install a resistor on my Input Air Temp sensor that basically tells the computer that the incoming air is slightly cooler than it really is causing the computer to 'richen' the fuel mix. Here's why. In southeast Wisconsin we can only buy reformulated gas to help with air quality. Along with the 10% ethanol our gas has an additional additive (MTBE?). This has a noticeable negative affect on both MPG and performance. I can even tell the difference in my lawn mower! Now, when I travel up north and come back with unreformulated gas I get significantly better mileage and performance back on my normal commute. Around 51 normally and around 55 with the good stuff. This tells me that the fuel mix, probably biased around emmissions, is costing me performance/mpg. I'll need some time to evaluate whether it makes a difference but I though I'd troll a thread to see if anyone else has experience here. I'm going with the MindBlower chip instead of trying to craft something myself.
    Grant
     
  2. kohnen

    kohnen Grumpy, Cranky Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    317
    58
    0
    Location:
    Fullerton CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Don't bother - the computer will eventually catch on.

    The reason for the IAT is so that the computer can figure out how much fuel to use when you quickly open the throttle. But, the computer monitors the oxygen sensor to determine what the precise air to fuel ratio needs to be. It then uses that calibration information to change how much fuel it puts in when you blip the throttle.

    In addition, you don't want your engine running rich. That means that you are dumping unburned fuel into your cat converter. The cat converter, in burning that fuel, will overheat and become damaged.
     
  3. tesla440

    tesla440 Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    17
    0
    0
    Location:
    Muskego, WI
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    By fooling the AIT sensor, It will make the car run richer. I dought that it will cause a catalytic converter faulure, since the O2 sensor will correct the issue. But what might work would be getting warmer air from the radiator area into the intake. Warmer air needs less fuel to burn at the right mixture. Ofcourse you will have less engine preformance, but the prius has an electric motor to make up for any noticable deficiencies.
     
  4. kohnen

    kohnen Grumpy, Cranky Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    317
    58
    0
    Location:
    Fullerton CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    The computer will correct the issue by leaning out the mixture.

    The O2 sensor will tell the computer that there isn't any oxygen in the exhaust. The computer will compensate by leaning out the mixture (either by opening the throttle plate more, or by reducing the amount of fuel injected). Either way, the air to fuel ratio will ultimately be set to the same stoichiometric ratio of about 14.7.

    Air-fuel ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  5. BT Tech

    BT Tech New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    885
    2
    0
    Location:
    South Florida
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    This is absolutely correct. In fact, when I had my Prius on our chassis dyno, I connected out wideband 02 sensor and found that the car actually ran at a leaner than normal 15:1 A/F ratio than the normal 14.7.

    As this poster already pointed out, modern day engine computers are a lot smarter than people give them credit for. Even if you install a resistor of a set value for the IAT, the 02 sensor will instanlty see the resulting richer fuel mixture and reduce the duty cycles to the injectors so that it maintains its pre-programmed A/F ratio.

    In other words, don't bother.... :(

     
  6. Grashwi

    Grashwi New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    8
    0
    0
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Perhaps and thanks for the insight. I'm still interested in mitigating the affect of the reformulated gas that we have here. If you are saying that the oxygen sensor will override the input from the IAT then perhaps it's beyond my control. Since I already bought it, and it's removeable, I'm going to install and see what affect it has. I'm hoping my IAT has at least as much 'weight' as the oxygen sensor, else why have it? Must be part of the programming or it would be dead cost.
     
  7. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    3,033
    708
    75
    Location:
    Ballamer, Merlin
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    It seems some folks come at possible engine mods from the mechanical
    perspective. Others come from the electronic angle. Different strokes...

    Although I'm not in any way a mechanical type of guy, I'd like to offer some
    random thoughts from reading posts here on PriusChat:

    Instead of trying to trick the computer, it appears that you can lower the air
    inlet temp by 2-4 deg F by piping around the throttle block heater. See these
    threads:

    http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-t...tb-coolant-bypass-modification-results-2.html

    http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-modifications/42065-tb-hot-water-bypass.html

    At some point engine modders seem to get the urge to change the air intake
    tract. It appears that the inlet tract is highly engineered and even small
    changes make big differences -- I guess a Mini-Cooper S hood scoop is out of
    the question. As a start, check here:

    http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-technical-discussion/50750-air-intake-pocket.html

    Lastly, there are many folks looking into these sorts of things on other
    forums. For a quick way to access them, use the search function, and then
    choose the Google search option. Most likely you will find some threads on
    Ecomodder.com. A very interesting group of max-MPG adherents, most
    driving non-hybrids. Some amazing stuff here.

    Enjoy!

    ****************************************************************

    [Edit] A Side Bar: The latter thread about the Prius air resontor raised this
    question in my mind: What if you filled the resonator with ice cubes such that
    the inlet air temp was significantly lower, say 10 Deg F, than the outside air
    temp as shown on the MFD. Would the computer(s) use the intake and outside
    temps separately or go into some kind of recursive loop trying to resolve the
    differences?
     
  8. BT Tech

    BT Tech New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    885
    2
    0
    Location:
    South Florida
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Various inputs are "looked" at by the engine ECU such as IAT, ECT (Engine coolant temp) TPS (Throttle position) (MAF )Mass Air Flow, MAP (Manifold absolute Pressure) and a host of other inputs to calculate the correct A/F ratio and ignition timing at any given moment.

    When you first start the engine when cold, the system is in "open loop" where it reads these various sensors and matches the said values to a pre-programmed fuel and ignition map disregarding 02 sensor inputs. This is called the cold start value and having a colder or warmer ECT or IAT reading will determine the A/F ratio under the cold cranking mode and while in open loop.

    When the engine warms up to a pre-determined point, then the system goes into "closed loop" where it predominately looks at the 02 sensor voltages and adjusts the duty cycle of the injectors to maintain its optimum A/F ratio and ignition timings for optimum effeciency. The other sensor inputs are used as well but the most critical value in determining the final fuel ratio is the 02 value. If the 02 sensor were to fail, the ECU would go back into a open loop status and read the values from the other sensors in an attempt to keep the A/F ratio correct.


     
  9. Grashwi

    Grashwi New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    8
    0
    0
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Then perhaps I cannot improve on the air quality emphasis of the design. I'm happy with that unless I can trade a portion of air quality for mgp. I'll still try this since I'm not at all sure that anyone has really considered the poor efficiency we get from the reformulated gas we're forced to buy in SE WI. Might be interesting to see if a difference surfaces. To speak to one of the best informers here, I installed a BT stiffening plate on my 2008 touring. Hands down the amount of businessest of the wheel, compensating for wind buffet, is very much reduced. My wife is much more comfortable even, and she wasn't comfortable driving the upper 70s we do going up north. This one mod works in more extreme conditions and I'm hoping I can mitigate the affect of our gas too. If not, ya know, this ain't bad at all...
    Grant
     
  10. V8Cobrakid

    V8Cobrakid Green Handyman

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2004
    3,790
    152
    0
    Location:
    Park View, Los Angeles, CA. U.S.A
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    so.. adding a hood scoop would be complete worthless.. and potentially loud?... or potentially damaging? (i've always been curious) :couch2:
     
  11. BT Tech

    BT Tech New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2005
    885
    2
    0
    Location:
    South Florida
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Now I KNOW you are kidding around!!! :eek::eek::eek:


     
  12. V8Cobrakid

    V8Cobrakid Green Handyman

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2004
    3,790
    152
    0
    Location:
    Park View, Los Angeles, CA. U.S.A
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    i wanted a hood scoop when i drove around in my Lincoln Mark VII... fun car.

    i'm kidding.. curious.. but kidding.
     
  13. SPEEDEAMON

    SPEEDEAMON Professional Car Nut

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    1,556
    606
    5
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Grashwi [​IMG]
    Perhaps and thanks for the insight. I'm still interested in mitigating the affect of the reformulated gas that we have here. If you are saying that the oxygen sensor will override the input from the IAT then perhaps it's beyond my control. Since I already bought it, and it's removeable, I'm going to install and see what affect it has. I'm hoping my IAT has at least as much 'weight' as the oxygen sensor, else why have it? Must be part of the programming or it would be dead cost.

    What exactly does the MINDBLOWER performance Module do? Its advertised on ebay at $22.95 and claims huge pwer increase and up to 70% fuel efficiency. Or is it just another snake oil device? Its cheap enough to take a chance.

    Have you noticed any improvements?


     
  14. DGH

    DGH Thread Terminator

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    365
    93
    0
    Location:
    Wales, WI
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Just wait until the winter formulation hits the pumps.
    Then it gets really bad.
     
  15. MR.K

    MR.K Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    86
    2
    0
    Location:
    Idaho
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Since ECU computers "learn" and adjust to our mods...we just need to fool them better ie....could you use this resistor 220 ohm in series with the intake sensor ...and ... a FIFE mod on the O2 sensor ..and ..fool the water temp sensor (using the temp sensor hack listed here on P/C) ..to lean out the mixture to around 16.5:1....I have a 2000 Honda Insight M/trans ratio 14.7:1 normal , when it goes into lean burn mode it goes to over 23:1..
     
  16. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,075
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    This is a dumb idea. The control system on the Prius is already designed to provide an optimum balance between efficiency and emissions. Anything that can be added will either do nothing or make things worse.

    Tom
     
  17. MR.K

    MR.K Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    86
    2
    0
    Location:
    Idaho
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Lean burn engines are great ....the Japan hypermilers have all kinds of mods.....some have so many guages on their dashes they look like Radio Shack bargain counter......
     
  18. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    2,943
    1,378
    67
    Location:
    Yokohama, JAPAN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    We need a special catalyzer to reduce the NOx emission, though.

    Ken@Japan
     
  19. MR.K

    MR.K Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    86
    2
    0
    Location:
    Idaho
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Ken how can you make these a lean ICE ? What can be done in the 02 sensor (EFIE) ,water temp , intake sensor ....also lean do you think ratio could safely go ..ie 18:1
     
  20. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    2,943
    1,378
    67
    Location:
    Yokohama, JAPAN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A