Good Plan and simple too! If everybody in the USA switched to an automobile as efficient as the prius how much would oil consumption drop ?
I hope I did not detract from the Pickens Plan in this posting. I just thought the title fit......well! The term, as I use it in this posting is both figurative and literal; Figurative in the sense that we are using finite resources and going to the well with reckless abandon as we now do will exhaust these resources and literal meaning; foreign oil wells. Sorry, I didn't realize my title would be vague.
Not as much as one would hope. A large percentage of oil usage is in the corporate and mass transporation sectors as well as for building materials, consumer products, carpeting, fertilizers/pesticides, etc. etc. etc. Better if we push for redesigning out cities and agricultural practices in addition to creating more efficient personal transportation for those who do not have the benefit of living in a sustainably designed city.
Directly on point! We need robust investment in human-centered communities that are sustainable and based on renewable energy (small hydro, wind, solar, geothermal, efficiency and conservation). Rapid investment in electric light and high speed rail vs. continuing sprawl based on individual vehicles.
how much oil will it take to produce all those solar panels, windmills, hydro plants and R&D in order to get us off oil? Last I checked petrolium products were in everything I touched. So we need a car that doesn't use fuel to move, lubricants to, um, lubricate, carbon fibre for body panels, glue to hold the body panels together, plastics for interior pieces and computer electronic components, or tires to get down the road made from petrolium. That's just a little bit of what goes into a car that's made from sucking black tea out of the ground, don't even get me started on what's at work or in our homes. Reduction in oil usage, sure ok. But this society is carbon based, with that base coming from oil, we'll never be able to survive without it.
Which is EXACTLY why we need to be using the cheap oil we have for the transition to this "new society". As oil becomes more expensive and less abunant it will become progressively more difficult to make the required changes. Pissing the oil away on garbage that people don't need and to tool around town showing off your ride is such a waste of this vuluable resource when you look at it in that light.
Most of you agree that we need to get off foreign oil. Petroleum products are everywhere and seems impossible to get away from. But we need to start somewhere and we have a motivator of hitting the "pocket book", which will get the attention of most people. A journey starts with a little step but at this time we need to make some major one's.
Total agreement with getting off oil, into solar, wind, waves, or whatever. Call me a skeptic, but if wind farms are owned by conglomerates, won't we just be buying our clean energy from a different corporation? The energy captured by the windmill farms will still be sent to each home via the electric company, and they'll send us a bill every month? Is there any merit to development of small high tech, mass produced windmills placed on site of individual homes where the free wind energy can be captured and converted on site? Agreed, some areas of the country as better suited than others, but how do we take this free energy and own it, rather than buy it from someone else? Forty years ago almost every farm in the countryside had a windmill, how can we update that technology and keep it in the hands of the people rather than be at the mercy of some corporation?
In rough numbers (and off the top of my head) the light duty fleet accounts for about 1/3 of our overall petroleum usage. So a 50% improvement in the efficiency of the LDV fleet would cut overall usage by ~17% Not huge but not insignificant. The remaining is ~1/3 transport sector and 1/3 industrial, which highlights the importance of making equal strides on those fronts. Rob
Stratfor.com, who has no ideological ax to grind, analyzed the last Bush proposal for increasing oil output. They concluded that it will be years before it made a difference, and that the same results could be obtained if half the SUVs in the US were replaced by hybrids.
On the surface the plan is good PR. But it is really not a plan. It is a political initiative. I just wish this were made clearer and that most readers of Prius Chat are aware of some basics: 1) Wind farms are built based on economic calculations and as money making undertakings of businesses. It is NOT something you vote for or against or that elected officials decide to build or not build. The only thing that accelerates this is regulatory changes that make it more profitable.....but the economic situation is rapidly going this way just by the skyrocketing cost of oil and transportation. 2) What natural gas is used for follows the same economic path. It would only be used for transportation when other uses are cost prohibitive. I do not see the massive gas infrastructure for home heating and power generation changing near as fast as the plan infers, even if wind power expands drastically.
A conservative like T. Boone Pickens who is into alternative energy is extremely refreshing. Because of it, he is gaining bi-partisan support for his plan. Even the Sierra Club recently endorsed him. I like him a lot, and I'm very liberal. That says a lot. Plus he's got a cool name (pronounced T-Bone)
I liked the plan but I am curious as to how wind mills could operate in Minnesota or Wyoming in the dead of winter with the wind chill index well below zero degrees. I have seen the wind mills in the hills surrounding Palm Springs in warm weather. They are not only an alternative energy program but visually beautiful. These folks found a way to avoid nuclear power plants from being built in their town.
Ok, I've heard this saw too many times. Let's be optimistic and say it will take 7-8 years to actually see the fruits of the labor of additional drilling in new fields....... Let's say we don't drill until we REALLY need it. Then we've still got 7-8 years from THAT point to see anything. Sounds similar to needing an operation, but not real bad now, but waiting until it's a REAL mess to get started. And from a radio interview with T. Boone, I'm not too sure about him anymore, either. From a man who made his living and wealth from a free market economy, he advocated the government stepping in and reducing the importation of oil (that was about 3 weeks ago). No equivocation, no "what I really mean is" - nope, the government steps in and halts the importation of oil. Doesn't seem he's much for the free market anymore, does it? And being as he's a large investor (from the standpoint of dollars), what's he invested in? Maybe he has ulterior motives? (Perish the notion!). Yes, usage of oil (and many other products) needs to be reduced across the board. I believe the best approach for much of this is another government "Manhattan Project", the results of which are not patentable (since it was paid for by the US taxpayer). Color me cynical - but I always have a suspicion about anyone in the government, or an influential individual, who can profit from the directions they espouse. They may be good for you, or just profitable for them.
Great questions. Can they not operate in the cold? Maybe they are heated? I don't know. There is a seaside town somewhere in the US, I forget where, but we watched a show on it. They put wind-like propeller things UNDERWATER off their coast and the ocean current is what is generating the entire town's electricity. I wish I could remember where this is. Interesting too how he identified the "wind belt" of the US. Even if the windmills turn out to be "big wind" (as in like "big oil") - it is a renewable energy source - unlike oil, and it is produced in the US - unlike oil. (No war necessary) Conservatives typically aren't open to such change - his open thinking is very refreshing. Might even give the republican party a decent reputation again.
I just discussed this topic and T. Boone yesterday with a friend. We live in KS, and there's a wind farm about 20 miles east of me (25+ turbines), and another out in western KS. I don't know about any others, but one question both of us have is: Why is it whenever we go by these wind turbines, only about 1/3 of them are running? Is it because the others aren't "online" yet? Is it because they are "broken". Or is it because there isn't enough transmission lines available to move the generated electricity to another locale? Or something else? We don't know why, no one we talk to seems to know, and those who seem as if they should know don't seem to provide answers. We remain curious .... Honestly, I think an "all hands on" approach is necessary, some solar, some wind, some wave, some alternative fuels, some additional drilling, some .....??? I don't think there's going to be any one answer. I also don't think there's going to be any significant advancement in any of these areas for at least 3-4 years. (Significant meaning a 15-20% advancement over current technology in same field, etc.) If anyone has an answer to the mysterious new wind turbines (installed over the last 3-4 years or so) not functioning, I'd sure like to know.
