Headlight problem

Well I got my $100 OEM bulb from UPS today but the thought of this bulb/computer mismatch indicated in the Bulletin caused me to think twice before installing it. I recalled my dealer who went onto his "TIS" system and did not find the service bulletin referenced earlier in this thread. So with his blessing I called Toyota and opened a case. We'll see what happens. At the end, I "need" to know that the "2006 Prius" OEM headlight bulb is the right one for my 2006 Prius before I spend the $100 (fix myself) or $500 (dealer fixes). I just can't get myself into a "multiple fixes" situation. Too much $$....jfo

 

well I talked to Toyota and the headlight computers definitely do exist

good news is they're paying for them!

I still get stuck for the labor but I really can't complain too bad

-s

 

I still need someone to explain that one to me...... unless they are talking about the "ballast" which all HID bulbs have, whether in a car or a handheld spotlight etc?

At any rate... as long as you are putting the same "type" bulb in, it should have no complications with the "ballast"....... on the Toyota Prius 06, it uses the D4R type....

Here is a little light reading about it.

Note, they say thier bulbs are "newer generation" than the OEM D4R bulbs.... if this is true, this may be the clue to the problem... those D4R bulbs we have were first generation and had internal imperfections that are not openly discussed so as to prevent a wholesale recall.

Note also, they speak about the ballast... call it computer if you wish, but all it does is provide the adequate high voltage upon initial fire-up and then lower it back down for stable running long term until you kill the light.

Knowledge is power, and it seems the more "power" the dealers and shops can keep out of the hands of the lay person, the more money they can make.

 

Now that site you linked is great. They're selling the OEM for around $88 each and there is pictures so I can see the diff between the D2R and D4R. Maybe today Toyota will phone me back to tell me what's up on the claim I opened yesterday...thanks for the site, learned bunch more...jfo

 

Your welcome!...... I'm sure some wonder why I sound bitter against some of the vendors out there..... just look at the profit margin and highway robbery by comparing this site's OEM prices with phillips etc.

Phillips is either making a "killing" as they talk it about it over dinner with Exxon, or they are so pitiful at making bulbs it cost them tons more to make the same product?..... maybe they are on the same train with GM?

Sorry for getting politics involved, but it all makes sense in the master scheme as we try to figure out why we are even having problems in the first place, second.... why there is such a vast array of price differences with different vendors for the same product, thirdly... why the OEM is revered as better when its the product we are all having problems with in the first place!, and fourth.... why there is so much confusion as to whats really going on as some dealers want to sell you a new farm to fix the tractor while others simply say its a cheap 35.00 product "ebay bulb" that seems to fix the whole issue?

The darker the cloud over this issue, the more confusion and fear they can generate to gender more dependence upon their product........ why does it always come down to money that hides the truth?

Thank goodness for forums, or we would "really" be in trouble!

 

Happened again last night (HIDs on the 2004 - no extended warranty). Passenger side light went out 4 times in 13 minutes. I went to 'running lights' 3 times and full off and on once. People must have thought I was warning them about hidden state troopers or something (maybe they did speed limit for awhile ).

Went 30 more minutes without incident, then it happened twice more in 5 minutes. Fine for the final 30 minutes home. I had been driving with the lights on about 30 minutes before the first 'issue'. Wth??

 

It seems like most of my problems were soon after I turned on my lights.... it almost acted as if the material inside could not maintain its plasma state without a little help... so after fizzling out and getting hit again with another high energy blast from the ballast, since it was already warmed up well at that point, the two combined seemed to keep it on.......
but, then like you say... there were other times when they did well until I had them on for a while... almost like they overheated or something......

I'm not sure of all the dynamics of what goes on inside one of those bulbs and I am not an expert on HID bulbs.... but many of the guys on the candlepower HID forums are.... unfortunately, they don't bounce over here too much.
But the voltage jumps to several thousand for a few seconds when the ballast first fires up, then drops to somewhere around 70 or so volts to run the light from then on.... I suspect that, its is not quite enough to keep those 1st generation bulbs kicking without an added boost along the way.....
on the other hand, I suppose its possible that prolonged heat inside the bulb could raise a resistance point enough to drop the voltage hitting the bulb.... maybe once the bulb fades out, the added boost allows it to run at the lower voltage "caused by the resistance point" for a longer while.
If the resistance point theory is right, it would be in the bulb rather than the ballast, since replacing the bulb seems to fix the issue.

I'm obviously guessing and speculating.... but its just based on my conjecture and experience... I had "two" cars acting up.. and new bulbs fixed them both and they aren't even OEM bulbs I used to replace the old ones with.

 

if you need the tsb, download it here.
http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-...ev1-hid-headlight-system-diagnostic-tips.html

 

Thanks for the link Galaxee.

The Intro on the TSB says troubleshooting "Low Beam Does Not Turn On (One Side)". It is specific to HIDs but is it the same problem as "Works fine for a long time, shuts off and relights when the headlight switch is turned off then immediately back on"?.

Obviously steps 2 and 3 of the 'repair' can be done for any generic 'headlight is not working properly' problem so I guess I'll have to find time this weekend to try them. Sure glad PCers have posted that you don't need to remove the bumper to get the bulbs out!!

 

this is whats confusing..... HID's don't have separate bulbs for low and high beams... at least they don't for the prius???

Its merely a moving part that deflects the light and chops it off the top "in low beam mode" and lets the whole beam show "for high beam".... so not sure what they mean "low beam does not turn on".... this TSB sounds like its for halogen bulbs with two filaments?.....

Anyway, its clear they are not taking any responsibility for the problem in the TSB as they say its "not applicable to warranty".

So whats the point of the TSB?.... merely to say there is a service problem and we need to fix it?

I thought service bullitins were to notify the customer of a problem thats different than the expected norm and may be dangerous or otherwise go unnoticed dealing with defects and workmanship bugs? :juggle:

 

There is an amazing array of lights available. I would have to wonder if the blue, purple, green (others?) are even street legal.

In any case, my 2004 uses a 4300K 35W D2R, sold new at that site for $60 per PAIR plus $10 shipping (How does he do that when Toyota wants $350 per BULB?? I know dealers toss in huge markups but 10X ?! ). Even if it turns out I just have a loose connection, I'm tempted to get a pair of these for when the bulbs DO go. Who knows what they will cost in a few years when they should more reasonably be expected to fail.

Is it accurate to say that something described as 4300K 35W D2R is a valid replacement for anything else with the same description?

 

for the record, a tsb is a bulletin that toyota uses to give techs specific information on a problem that appears to be more common based on whatever threshold they use for "common". it is used to aid in diagnosis and repair of that specific issue.

since so few in the beginning had the foggiest idea how to test parts of the system, this came out as a guide in diagnosis of the HID headlight system. it's better than the previous default answer of "i do not know how to diagnose this, let's replace everything and see if that works." that's all i can really come up with.

 

It does specifically say:
"HID Headlight System - Diagnostic Tips"
and
"The following bulletin is a supplement to the Repair Manual and provides diagnostics tips for troubleshooting “Low Beam Does Not Turn On (One Side)â€"

I don't think a TSB is meant as an alert to consumers but is 'How To' info for the service tech.

Of course *I* do not know where the HID ECU is so at best, I can check the connection at the bulb base and maybe follow the wiring back if the ECU isn't too far away to check the connection there as specified in Step 2 of the TSB.

 

Its not a loose connection or you could simply bang it with your hand or as you drove down the road it would turn off when you hit a bump etc.

And yes they can do 10X markup if the market will bear it... . this country has the mentality if the market will bear it, then its ok... hence the oil and energy prices.
We would pay 10.00 a gallon for water if we had to.. but fortunately it still falls out of the sky!
Its true one is made overseas and the other by phillips, but where do you think phillips makes their stuff... I"m sure its outsourced under their specs and oversight, but nonetheless quality control is still a major issue.

There are "allot" of HID bulbs in the world now and so the incentive to compete for that market can bring very lucrative rewards... hence the blessing and beauty of the internet and competing on a global level rather than being under the thumb of a few local boys.

 

I have a 2006 Prius with intermittent headlight problems which is out of warranty. With no support from dealerships without paying $1000 to replace both headlights for a "known issue", I was given a # to call directlly to Toyota as long as I promised not to tell where I got the number. The number is 1-800-331-4331. After logging a complaint with Toyota, Toyota has agreed to re-imburse my repair costs. Try it!!! I have an appt next week to have my headlights replaced. Good Luck!!!!!

 

I pulled both of my bulbs today. It wasn't horrible. I got my hands a bit messy but lost no skin I didn't have to move the washer fluid tank but did have to take the cover off the fuse box. The only things I had to remove to get to the bulb housings were the black plastic 'tray' that runs across the front of the engine compartment, the air duct (1 clip) near the washer fluid tank and the fuse box cover.

Here are 3 pictures of the 2 bulbs. In the first, the bulb that is not 'winking out' is on top. I don't know if it has any bearing, but the 'bad' one seems pretty opaque in the 'roundish' section just above the gray band where the good one is fairly clear. As I rotate them both, the good one does look a bit more opaque at some angles than in this picture but the bad one looks like the picture from all angles. I assume this is some failure within the bulb.

The other two show each bulb separately.


I decided NOT to swap the bulbs to the opposite side. If I lose one, I'd rather it not be the driver's side. I'll be ordering from Windstrings's EBay supplier in a few minutes.

I added pictures of the disassembly to my photo album (but I don't know how to link it here )

 

Mine looked that way too!.... HID bulbs will have some of that normally..... but its supposed to vaporize when fired up..... I also thought they were a bit too cloudy for normal.

 

I've had the same experience. Toyota seems to understand that this is too much to pay for headlights and I believe they will do something about it in the future. For now, I'm very happy that they are taking care of me, and I am glad I can still be a fan of Toyota. It's a great car - of course there are some kinks to work out, but they really do seem to care about being reasonable with people!

 

Good to hear Steve.... How many miles are on your car, and who did you talk to? and what is the phone number?

All I ever got was run around and statements saying it was not a warranty issue.... I do have the platinum extended warranty with over 55K on my car.

Even when they do fail from normal use, that's still a ludicrous price to pay to simply change a bulb.

 

windstrings, my factory OEM part did not work out. What color bulbs did you buy or rather...if I want to have the same color as came on the car what color should I buy? thanks