Japan aims to install solar panels on 70% of newly built houses

I wish we would do the same with solar water heating.

EERE Consumer's Guide: The Economics of a Solar Water Heater

THAT is some mighty low hanging fruit!

 

Yes, solar water heaters will keep the water easily hot enough to shower in the morning. The gas or electric boost kicks in if you use a lot of hot water or if the water temperature drops below 60 degrees Celsius but that normally only happens on days of heavy cloud cover and even on those days the solar heater contributes to heating the water.

If you live in areas where heavy frosts form some of the heat in the tank may be used to prevent the water in the panel from freezing, this may cause the booster to come on when it is very cold.

 

Here, you can copy our SB644. The governor has decided not to veto it:
Lingle's veto list misses major bills | starbulletin.com | News | /2008/06/24/

The local solar installers feel that it just gives the developers a chance to cut the little guys out of the business, I mean, pass on higher costs to new-home buyers. The reality is that most homeowners don't want to try to fork over the $5500 up front, even if they're getting $4000 back in rebates & credits.
Solar water heater bill draws opposition | starbulletin.com | Business | /2008/04/03/

I think it'd be nice to buy a home where the piping is integrated within the house instead of just bracketed to an exterior wall.

 

Pat, what they do in those climates is use a different liquid to collect the heat and then use a heat exchanger to heat the water in the tank. That way you don't have to worry about freezing water in the pipes.

Suffering, yer spot on. It's absurd that solar thermal panels aren't a building code thing now. There's really no reason to exclude them from every new building built.

 

They're also installing recharge stations. There will be at least two EVs available in 2009. Can U.S. sales be far behind?

 

By contrast, I just happened to check the laws in Virginia today regarding net metering. Virginia Power is required to accept net metering of home and commercial PV installations only up to the point where those PV installations account for 1% of power consumed in the state. If you get your PV after that, tough. And knowing Virginia Power, they aren't going to go one bit above that. So while Japan is aiming for 70% of new home construction, Virginia caps the most basic economic benefit at 1% of total demand. No question which approach is going to prove smarter in the long run.

 

This is why GERMANY is #1 in solar in the world.

My local utility won't pay one cent for any extra power I generate. They also have a lot of hidden fees tacked on if you net meter. And you have to pay for everything up front before you can get any tax credits from Fed or State. The U.S. isn't serious about solar.

 

We're working on getting a solar PV system for our home, but I don't know if we'll end up doing it.

It's just under $30K after rebates for a 6K system that will generate approximately 10,000 kWh/year. This would be 80-90% of our energy needs.

The problem is we don't have space on the roof for the panels. We could maybe fit a 1.5K system up there. So they're designing a gazebo thing, 12'X42' that would go in our back yard and provide a patio.

The problem is, the guy we talked to said it would be 8' tall at the low end and slope up to 16' tall. We have a 7' wall around our yard. There is no way the HOA, or the neighbors will be happy with a 16' tall gazebo - and we won't be thrilled with it either.

We're hoping the guy who told us 16' was mistaken and the actual plans won't be quite so tall. We could live with 12', but 16' is a bit too big for us. I know that we would not be pleased if our neighbors installed such a large structure where we would see it from our home, and we don't want to do that to them either. On the CAD drawings he showed us from a similar project, they really didn't look THAT tall - maybe a range of 8-12', not 8-16'.

It's scary; $30K is a big expenditure. But I figure it's like rent. You have to live somewhere, if you pay $1K in rent each month you won't have anything to show for it in 10 years. If you pay $1K in mortgage, you'll at least own something. So we're paying $166/month in electrical bills with nothing to show for it. I'd rather pay the bank and have a system at the end, at least I'll be able to continue using it.

 

It doesn't have to be 16 feet. That's probably the optimum design angle for as much power as possible. You can stop it at 12 feet. You'll just lose a little generating power. I think a gazebo is a great idea. You could really do a lot underneath it to make it "intentional". Like an outdoor kitchen entertainment area. That would make it look like the patio/kitchen was the original idea and the gazebo came later. No one would even think about the panels.

Is he doing just a straight slope from 8 ft to 16 feet? You might consider a sawtooth with two rows of 8 ft to 12 ft. If you're investing this much, get an architect involved. You'll get fully functional to the optimum AND aesthetically pleasing. He'll also help with the design of the underneath patio area.

You must have a really big house with a lot of electrical needs to require 6 kwh and then only provide 80%. My parents have a pretty big house and they're only putting in 4. I have 2.5.

 

Some of the japanese architects working on contemporary small space, new construction are leaders in their fields--- i am very interested in how they incorporate these demands into new home construction---
Froley

 

fine, until we develop something better.
what if i live in a farm in a windy area? or somewhere where its cloudy all the time? i might want a wind generator instead of a PV array. or maybe we invent something better thats non polluting. don't require solar panels, or any specific technology.

give me credits for whatever i install that reduces my carbon footprint ; and tax whatever i install that increases it.

or put in a carbon footprint tax. and issue credits for stuff that reduces the carbon footprint - and let me trade those credits on the open market.

we need to force a change - tax the stuff that pollutes - pollution tax. make it cheaper for me to build a house with a solar H2O heater and PV cells than it is to build one without these items.

put in a concrete driveway, or foundation, tax the stormwater runoff it produces based on its square footage.
put in a raingarden, give me a credit bigger than the tax.

put in a gas water heater, tax it.
put in a solar water heater, give me a credit.

5000 sq ft of sod, tax
5000 sq ft of native plants, credit

sprinker system, tax
rain barrels, credit

or, maybe pewd's just crazy.

 

I like Pewd's ideas

 

So. Cal isn't known for Tornados or Hurricanes so there is a state thing about developers putting in a certain % of solar in new developments. I have no problem with that. The developer does it during construction. You don't have to buy the house if you don't want it. This is PV. Personally I think they should do PV, solar hot water AND a tankless system.

As for the rest.

I've got Pv.

I've got a tankless on demand water heater.

I replaced my driveway with what I suppose you'd call a raingarden. It's little concrete pillows with dirt in between. Currently I'm nursing dicondra along as I don't want to mow grass.

No sod. I have a lot of brick patios with walkways with planter beds around. They have geraniums, roses, fushia and fruit trees. Just put in five more fruit trees with a fourth planned for next year. (My apple tree is pregnant!)

No rainbarrels (yet). But I do have drip on timers.

I also have a recycling washer. I can do two loads of laundry with the same fill.

 

We're still working on the solar thing. Our usage was 15K kWh on average for the two years we've been in the house. It's not a huge house - 2100 ft, but with the super hot summers we've been having, that uses the bulk of the electricity. We had a heat wave last year with a record number of 110+ degree days consecutively. We're on track to do the same thing this year.

Looking at my usage history, we're in the 600's for kWh/month for most of the year. But July/August/September, we're in the mid 2500's. So that's why the system we're looking at will only do 80% maybe.

It turns out it doesn't have to be 16 ft. It could be 9' if we want it to. The people we're working with are general contractors as well as solar, so they can do pretty much whatever we'd like. The company VP lives in our neighborhood, so he's going to be stopping by to give us some ideas on what we can do.

My husband still isn't sold on solar. He's looking at the big number and seeing $31,000 is scaring him. I'm looking at the fact that even if electric costs don't go up at all in the next 15 years, we'll be paying $29,880 to the electric company and have nothing to show for it. I'd rather pay $31K for a system that will work for at least 25 years than $49,800 to the electric company throughout the same time period.

I've told him it's like the Prius. We had heard the rumors about the batteries needing replacement and the mpg not being the 51/60 that they had been advertising. We did our research and now we think that was one of our best decisions ever. I have a feeling solar is going to be the same, but he's still worried.

 

And power won't stay the same. Inflation alone will change that. Meanwhile, your loan will stay in 2008 dollars, plus, you can probably deduct the interest. If you could spend a couple $1K to do a creative swamp cooler install that'd probably be money well spent. I know I've brought it up a bunch, but it seems like the bang for the buck would be massive in your case.

 

Here, Virginia Power just raised rates by 18%, citing the cost of fuel. Largest raise since -- guess when -- the '7o's oil crisis. Coincidence? I don't think so. Here's a quote from the Washington Post article on it:

"According to Dominion, coal costs have risen by 95 percent in the past year, and oil and natural gas have also become more expensive. Prices have risen so sharply that the commission's analysts have warned that the increase requested by Dominion might in fact be too conservative."

 

Wow, I didn't realize coal had jumped that much. I know that demand for it is increasing pretty fast, but didn't think that fuel costs would push it up so high so fast. It's certainly good news for the renewable energy and efficiency industries.