Honda Begins Production of Zero-Emission Hydrogen Cars

"which runs on hydrogen and electricity,"

WOuldn't that mean it is NOT a zero emissions vehicle? I mean the hydrogen and electricity come from somewhere. Where I live they would be produced at a 60 year old, smoke belching, water polluting, coal fired plant. Really clean!

 

You are being obtuse. It is a zero emission vehicle, which means no emissions from the vehicle, not the power source. This has always been the standard for rating vehicle emissions. Gasoline powered cars are not charged with the emissions from the refining process, the electricity used pumping the gas, or trucking the gas to the stations.

Tom

 

Luckally, where I live, most of our power is hydroelectric and nuclear. Unfortunately, the most affordable (and hence largest proportion) hydrogen production uses methane, which releases CO2.

It's not as dirty as an ICE, and would presumably release less CO2 than a gasoline engine per mile (so I guess it's a step in the right direction), but I'd feel better if we could get electrolysis (of water) produced hydrogen. At least in areas such as mine, where the grid power for this is relatively clean.

 

Several of the articles I've seen mention this as "the first zero emission vehicle." I guess the reporter conveniently ignores the GM EV1.

 

Come on now. That's like saying that bicycles aren't zero emissions because the food needed to power the bike comes from sources that require fossil fuels to procure them.

 

Honda rolls out new zero-emission, hydrogen fuel cell car for southern California. Fleet of 200 to be leased to Hollywood.

"Honda also plans to launch a gas-electric hybrid-only model, as well as hybrid versions of the Civic, the sporty CR-Z and Fit subcompact."
A Fit hybrid? Cool ! What is a CR-Z ?

"Honda has no plans for a plug-in electric vehicle. President Takeo Fukui said he does not believe current battery technology is good enough to develop a feasible car." Yeah, kind of like when he didn't think the Insight would be needed ? I'll sure bet they wish they were making the Insight right now. When Toyota suprises the public one day and announces it is making the PHEV available to the public, I'll bet we will see this whole situation all over again.

Honda rolls out new zero-emission car: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

 

Could have leased one at 600 a month but why? 600 and you will not own the vehicle?

 

Take a look at this...

Honda FCX Clarity - Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle - Official Web Site

Interesting comparison chart: Honda FCX Clarity - Fuel Cell Comparison - Official Web Site

As it converts methane to H2 at your house, it harnesses the resultant heat for heating your house.
Honda FCX Clarity - Home Energy Station - Official Web Site

(the most ironic (and somewhat humorous) part of this drawing is that the house in the diagram is equipped with a HUGE solar panel. Why not just use EV then?)

.

 

For $600, you lease the FCX with insurance included and free maintenance by Honda.
How good is that? The FCX costs $800K per unit as of today.

 

Yeah. That looks like 60 panel. At 150 w/ panel, that's a 9 KW system. Pretty massive. They'd probably need less if they got rid of the robot housemaid.

 

Bicycles aren't zero emissions vehicles. The food that fuels the rider has an enviromental cost. Bicylces are lower emission vehicles.

 

Well it is awefully convenient to ignore where the energy comes from to power these cars. Energy that may, or may not be cleaner, and may or may not be cheaper, than powering any other vehicle.
All these do is transfer the emissions to someplace else. It may make you feel good to drive one of these cars, but don't think you're doing any favors to the enviroment.

 

Even if the electricity is coming from a coal fired plant, that is FAR more efficient use of the natural resource than gasoline. Plus it's all domestic sourced fuel, unless your local power plant is purchasing Saudi coal.

 

So, you are saying Darrell is a polluter now?

 

Often times you have to work a problem backwards from the end result first.

Proof that an affordable zero-emission (in use) hydrogen vehicle can be produced in a form factor consumers are willing to buy is critical information to have. If it can't meet that test, not much point in going forward.

It is true the rest of the emission/pollution chain must be addressed so we aren't just moving sideways, or backwards. Knowing the end result is achievable, clean and of course, profitable, will focus the great minds of the engineers on the remaining challenges.

Just my 2cents.

 

All forms of energy produce some waste in their generation. Sadly, hydrogen is one of the worst in this respect, and in fact is a net energy loss. Sure it burns "clean" but unless you live on Jupiter, hydrogen is exceedingly rare compared to just about any other form of fuel we have.

But it makes a good headline. Zero emissions. 100% clean burning. Oil companies love hydrogen, because it is the golden carrot that is dangled in front of the ignorant masses and they can talk about it being our energy savior sometime in the future. But in reality almost all other solutions will become viable before hydrogen even begins to be practical, if ever.

 

Since free hydrogen doesn't exist naturally here on earth, you have to manufacture it. A previous writer suggested electrolysis as the best way to do it. That would surely make keeping track of the cost easier. Bear in mind that that hydrogen is a transfer medium, not a source of energy.

1 Kg H2 (liquified?) = 1 gal gasoline in energy content.

1 gal gasoline = 36.6 Kw-h

1Kg H2 = 36.6Kw-h + 9Kg H2O

1Kg H2 = 130%*(36.6Kw-h) + 19.8lbs H2O because of inefficiency

1Kg H2= 47.6Kw-h + 19.8lb/8.33lb/gal
= 47.6Kw-h + 2.38 gal clean H2O

At $0.10/Kwh for electricity ( very reasonable in future),

1gal of gasoline-equivalent H2 requires $4.76 plus 2.38 gal clean water


In Illinois, where electricity is generated from coal, 2007 cost was $0.0636/Kw-h for
industrial customers. That would make 1Kg H2 cost $3.03 plus 2.38 gal of clean water.

In any case, you still have to build the plant, do maintainence, and show a profit. Since the fuel cell in your hydogen car is only 50% efficient, you would be better off putting the electric energy directly into your car's battery.

"Hydrogen will never be able to compete with it's own source of energy".