The Volt: GM is, slowly but surely, screwing it up...

I just want to add a note that in Volt, combustion engine and electric motor does not have synergy. They are mutually exclusive because Volt use the ICE when the battery pack is run down.

There are tasks that combustion engine do better than the electric motor w/ battery and vice versa. Heating cabin is something the combustion engine clearly do better than the battery pack! Use the ICE to heat up the cabin! Charge the battery if there are excess energy. Hybrid 101 man!

I can give Volt's powertrain this name: Dual Engine Asynergy Drive

 

Prius' NiMH pack has 1.31 kWh of energy and weights 99 lbs.

Volt has 16 kWh Lithium pack that is expected to weight about 400 lbs. That is more than 12x energy but it only weights 4x more.

You can say Volt' pack has 3x more energy for the same weight as Prius' pack. Even with that Lithium advantage, a lot of compromises has to be made to run the car for 30 miles in real world with creature comfort.

That's why Toyota has been saying we need a break-thru in battery technology. Toyota has li-ion tech that double the energy compare to a typical li-ion. The price also has to come down as well to become suitable for mass market.

 

Another point that was pointedly pointed out to me was that the ICE requires a fuel source which will be sitting in some tank for some length of time. The hope that the Volt with a 40 mi range will eliminate the need for petro-fuel is very pie in the sky. The fuel would soon go stale and gum up the ICE if it was never used.

Thus this counter-efficient situation will likely have to occur. The driver will have to find a route or trip which is longer than 40 miles...significantly longer.... in order to deplete the fuel in the tank so that it can be replaced with fresh fuel.

 

The Prius has a battery only range of 2 miles or maybe 5 miles if you put a quails egg on the accelerator and the Volt is aiming for a electric only range of 30 miles or there abouts so how small did you expect the battery pack to be?

 

Couldn't one just put a product like Sta-Bil in the tank. It should allow the fuel to last for 12 months. Replacing the fuel once a year is no worse than changing the oil every 6 months.

But heck, if you're the type that hasn't used any gasoline in 2-3 months, it might be best to drain the tank and only put fuel in for longer trips.

 

*yawn*... it almost seems like everyone here is surprised that gm isnt putting up what they promised. when the volt was announced, about 90% immediately dismissed it as complete hype or total BS.

the other 10% expressed cautious optimism. iow... no one really believed the volt would happen... so what has changed to make anyone think differently?

to be honest with ya. i was in the "10%" crowd and i still am. a 4 seater would be a bummer, but i would still be happy with it. i could make do if everything else was as advertised.

but couple that with a $40,000 price tag, dropping stats, gm's legendary ability to take a good thing and destroy it and to be honest with ya...

i'm still in the "10%" category... but i am not (and didnt) hold my breath for anything that has to do with gm.

 

I was in Japan recently and I saw a Toyota Estima Hybrid, which is a full size minivan, same size as a Previa, so Toyota does make Hybrid minivans, they just need to bring it to the US...

Toyota Estima Hybrid 2008 new model in Japan

 

Most recent screw up:

They're hinting that the limited first run may require them to only lease them . . . at least in the beginning . . . de ja vu

 

If the terms of the lease require the car to be returned (no purchase option), then guess what? It is the EV2!

 

The battery on the Prius weighs 117 lbs. I think it holds 1.3kwh. The Volt battery was supposed to be 16kwh and weight less than 400 lbs. However, the only contract GM has signed so far is with a Japanese supplier. If you do the math, it has to weigh at least 700lbs (before armoring) to get the 16kwh.

 

The Prius battery is NiMH. The battery for the mythical Volt is supposed to be lithium. Lithium has a much greater energy-to-weight ratio.

There's no problem with the Volt battery except that it doesn't have a car to go into. The EV-1 went 120 miles on a charge and the Tesla Roadster goes 245.

 

You do have to step back and take a look at what GM is doing. Hopefully this car will bring them many rewards in the future. If gas keeps going up at the rate it does people will be buying these types of vehicles left and right.

But, Heres the kicker. The vehicles of the future will soon be here. Most electric vehicles that will require an overnight charge. Now electricity will be in high demand.

Does it matter what we do? It seems were screwed in the long run.

 

The NIMH EV1 went better than 120 miles. I could go well over 100 miles in the lead car. I only drove a NiMH car for four days, and my best was 165 miles on a charge. My best in the lead car was 113. These were real-live freeway miles, not back-road hypermiles.

While I understand the frustration with the Volt (and it doesn't surprise me a bit to hear of the proposed changes to spec) I don't understand the concern of a 400 pound battery. If you want to drive highway speeds for 40 miles, you need a bunch of battery. The complaint should be with the several hundreds of pounds of ICE and fuel system! We just take that for granted as being needed, and complain about the battery for the EV side? I don't get it. My Rav has 1100 pounds of NIMH batteries in it that allow me to go about 100 miles on a charge. Yes, Li-Ion is more energy dense - but it also will require liquid cooling and all kinds of pumps, plumbing and radiators. 400 pounds sounds reasonable to me! Let's leave the weight of the batteries and try to take the weight off the passengers.

 

Just for the record, according to the DOE the 2004 Prius Payload capacity is 905 lbs. Not stellar, but about typical for a small to mid-sized car these days.

Rob

 

So, GM has noticed the "real world" and started to make some engineering compromises...
These will make the car less popular...
Which gives GM an excuse when they don't sell as many as expected...
So GM can start the recall even earlier, all the while protesting that "People just don't want Electric Cars".

Deja Vu * 2

I for one would love a purely electric car for my all-of 7 miles round-trip daily commute; not that the Volt will ever make it this far south and since this isn't the Pancake forum, I can't say what I think of the electricity supply down here anyways.

 

I don't believe that we're all that surprised. Perhaps disappointed but not surprised. It's what GM gets for reacting to being caught with their pants down after they pooh-poohed the Prius and dealing with it by making up a really cool design first before bothering to find out if the insides would work. Did Toyota come up with the Prius exterior and have the designers make a hybrid system fit inside of it? Of course not. It's part of the overall reason why GM loses market share every year and blames it on everything and everyone but themselves. They don't need new cars, they need to change their way of thinking and that's about as likely as the Volt coming to market as promised.

 

In the biking crowd I hang with, people fret over accessories that add grams to their rides. My standard response is: Have a salad for lunch and save even more weight than the expensive Ti widget that you're lusting after.