2009 Prius BIGGER and FASTER (Yeah better mileage too)

I understand the point everyone is making, about bigger and faster being better. To some the Prius is perceived as under-sized and under-powered. The logical extension of that thought was what resulted in 400HP ExpiTahLades.

The fact is that the average 4 cylinder car today rivals the performace levels of 60's muscle cars. We all laughed here when Click and Clack ragged on the Big3 about why anyone would need a 400 HP car.

Sales of Automobiles just exceeded sales of Trucks for the first time in a decade or more. Manufacturers are shedding capacity and some dealers won't even take SUVs in trade.

The question is, is that trend confined just to "Trucks", or is it symptomatic of a growing realization in the public that size and speed aren't the only measures of a vehicle.

Worth noting is that in the first quarter sales of Camry Hybrids were more than twice sales of V6 Camrys.

If fuel prices continue to rise apace, I predict you'll see the public's perception of vehicles change right along with it. The current Prius has perfectly reasonable performance and actually is pretty quick off the line (if the tires don't break loose ) which is where people most often want a little oomph.

Fast Forward 2 years with gasoline at $4.50 a gallon or more, and put yourself in the market for a car. If there were a car the size of the Prius with the performance of the Prius that got 20 MPG more, and a car a couple of inches longer/wider that did sub 8 seconds 0-60 that got 8 MPG more, which would you choose.

I predict that when the new Prius comes out, people's first reaction won't be "I'm glad it's more of a hot-rod" - it will be "I wish it got better mileage".

Yeah, ok, 55 MPG is better than the current one, and likely to be better than the competition. The argument that you're making is that 55 MPG is "Good Enough" and that taking the extra available mileage and diverting it to Size and Speed is an acceptable decision.

I believe that the game is changing, and will continue to change. People will recognize that they could have had better mileage, and that the 04 Prius Size and Speed really was "Good Enough", and they will be disappointed in the design/marketing decisions Toyota made.

I believe that Toyota was caught in the old cycle where every model change had to outperform the previous, with performance defined as Size and Speed. I believe that Mileage is also a measure of performance, and while it hasn't been at the top of anyones criteria list historically, it's moving up like a rocket.

I think that if Toyota had some Study Groups telling them what they wanted in the new Prius two years ago, the answers would be very different from what they would be today, and what they would be in two more years. As I said, the game is changing.

Cars aren't developed overnight, and you can't change major designs this close to release, so it's a safe bet the 09 Prius was largely set in stone at least a year or two ago. I get the gut feeling it was driven by those two or four year old Study Groups.

I truely do think Toyota missed the mark with this one. It's understandable but I'm still disappointed. I think there was a foresight failure here.

I don't necessarily think it will hurt Toyota too much initially, because as folks here have pointed out, the Prius will still be essentially the only game in town.

I just predict that there will be a lot of people sitting in rush hour traffic in their 09 Priuses and they won't be thinking "I wish I could go 0-60 in a half second less". They will be thinking "I wish I were getting better mileage".

This does mean that Toyota needs to hurry up with the High-Mileage variant of the Prius Line. Hopefully it will be the same size and performance as the 04 and get 70+ MPG. If so, sign me up

Yeah, the 09 Prius will be good. Maybe Good Enough. But it could have been great, and that's my lament.

 

Here's someone else who feels like I do. It just surprises me where he comes from, knowing that site

Next-gen Prius Bigger, More Powerful | The Truth About Cars

By Justin Berkowitz
April 28, 2008

While I don't care for the Prius, I can't deny that it has been successful in America. Not just at sales or income for Toyota, but for having one of the highest profiles of any car on sale here and for legitimately changing the automotive game. But it looks like the Prius's developmental future is a lot more conventional.

Michele Krebs, writing for Edmunds' Auto Observer, reports a number of unfortunate developments for the next generation Prius, to be revealed at Detroit in January 2009. It's bigger - 3-4 inches, although not much heavier. The engine grows to 1.8 liters, and combined gas and electric power is up from approximately 110 horses to 160. But don't worry, fuel economy is up. So it's all okay, right? Wrong.

Most successive generations of automobiles are able to make improvements in all areas. That does not mean the distribution of those improvements - which are often compromises and tradeoffs - is ok. Fuel economy will be up in the next Prius? Imagine how much more it could be up if they weren't trying to squeeze another 50 horses out of the car, or adding 4 inches to the body.

Ms. Krebs also confirms that the Prius model range will grow (hopefully a smaller, lighter coupe is included), and reminds that a Lexus version with a 2.0-3.0 liter engine is still on the table.

This is an example of Toyota losing the plot, trying to make the Prius appeal to more people - and in so doing, diluting the one of the single most focused products on the automotive market. But hey, it's all in the pursuit of sales numbers.

 

I agree completely with your goals.

I just believe that Reality is Changing.

I believe that what will lead to the widest possible acceptance is Changing.

I believe that what people believe will work for them is Changing.

(Yes, I know I spelled Changing with a Capital C!)

I believe that you wouldn't have to 'force' people into a 70 MPG 04 Prius but that they would be gathered in mobs outside your door begging and pleading for one. I believe you might be able to collect a fair sized pile of first-borns if you were so inclined.

I believe that given a choice between a 55 MPG Camry (Which is basically what I consider the new 09 as described) and a 70 MPG 04 Prius, the Prius would out-sell the Camry.

Bottom line. I believe the world will be a different place in two years, just as it's very different now from two years ago, and that the announced Prius will not be the best that Toyota could have done for that Reality.

I believe that if the announced 09 Prius had been released two years ago, it might have been the perfect car for the reasons you cite. I just don't believe it will be the best choice for the future.

Of course, Time will tell and in two years one of us can come back and revive this thread for the appropriate Nyahh Nyahh Moment

Hindsight is 20-20 and I really suspect there are some people within Toyota who wish their Crystal Ball had been a bit clearer two years ago.

Of course, if I do turn out to be right I'll dig up the thread I posted over two years ago cautioning Toyota not to fall into the Bigger/Faster trap with the Prius. Think they'll hire me to help design the 2014 Prius?

 

And if it was the 70mpg AVERAGE I believe they could have achieved, then some of us would have a shot at 100.

As I said. 55mpg may be Good Enough to keep the Prius being the best available, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together will know that if it weren't for Bigger/Faster it would be more. They will know that though it may be the best available, it's not going to be the best possible.

I stand by my prediction that people will notice, will comment, will decide they wanted the mileage, and will judge Toyota's decision in that light.

I predict many more articles like the one I just quoted from the Truth About Cars, and I predict the majority of people will agree with them.

And, unless Toyota is very quick to the market with a more efficient version in the Prius Family, I predict the judgement of history will be thus:

01 Prius = No Guts No Glory

04 Prius = Genius

09 Prius = Sellout