2009 Prius BIGGER and FASTER (Yeah better mileage too)

Toyota has been up sizing most of its vehicles on each redesign. As we have discussed it has worked for them in the past but its starting not too. The Scion xB is a great example. The new one is bigger and faster but it gives up its mpg and price advantage. It has NOT been selling well.

I would love to have seen Toyota come out with a new version of the 1.5 with vvt and other improvements but 1.8 is not a huge engine. The total HP figure of 160hp on the other hand puts it at more power then my previous Mustang (v6 150hp)!! And of course it would be lighter too.

The hope is that Toyota makes a 1000cc Yaris 2 door sized Prius that does north of 75mpg new EPA test. They still have not topped the Insight and they easily could.

 

I think that you missed his point. There likely will be several Prius'. The prime one will be a 5 door hatch that gets 55+ mpg EPA-world instead of the current 48 mpg EPA-world. There is also the probability that there will be a smaller Prius with a smaller engine and fuel economy in the 70 mpg range. Then probably a third or even a 4th with completely different configuations. That way everyone is happy.

This will attract a much much wider market for 'the Prius'. For example how many $18000 buyers now can opt for a Prius? None. They either must step up to $24000 for a package 2 Prius or go the Corolla route. With a smaller Prius getting 70-ish mpg in the $19000-$20000 range that attracts a whole 'nother segment of buyers.

How about the minivan client that would love to get 30+ mpg instead of 22 mpg like the Sienna, Odyssey, Caravans do? There is one already. It's the Estima hybrid in Japan. It's smaller than the gasser Sienna but it has a 2.4L+HSD option so the power plant fits nicely and it's already made in the States. Add this as the 3rd 'Prius' and now the potential market has opened up another 500,000 buyers or so.

One thing.... as good as Toyota's vehicles are.... its Marketing is even better. It is simply the best marketing vehicle maker in the world.

 

Regarding vehicle capabilities there is another issue as well. I am certain, without facts admittedly, that all the vehicle makers - Toyota especially - hold back on the technical capabilities of their systems. They build them, see what they can do maxed out then ratchet them back several turns upon release.

This does two things. It gives a cushion for extreme instances and it allows them to show an 'advancement' on the next iteration without making any additional investments. There's a tertiary benefit if you will in that the users end up getting something better than expected. I always got 30-34 mpg on the highway in my 4c Camry's even though the rated values were 30 or 31 mpg.

 

hehehehehehe.......

it's all good. my prius II is already gonna be "claimed" by my wife.

i get the new one.......dont worry, we'll rotate the second time around!!

here's my new one

cheers!

 

I think deadphish got it right, but I'd like to add a few thoughts:
1. The 2008 Prius already has the same cabin size as the 2008 Malibu. Making it a little wider and a little faster just preempts any thought by GM that they can enter the market.
2. The Prius will be a three model brand name; that's old news. I think that the mileage leader will be a two passenger, pseudo-sporty model. It will use the same engine/HSD setup.
3. Part of my speech on the merits of HSD has been it's simplicity: not clutches, no belts, no transmission in the traditional sense. I think I'm going to be forced to ammend the speech on the next generation HSD. I think Toyota will go with the Lexus HSD setup to get more power (and less waste) from the electric motor. This means two clutches.

 

I'd like a 1.8 litre engine if it allows a towing capacity of 400 kilograms (880lbs) otherwise a little more elbow room please.

 

Prius-esque?

It better still have a hatchback or I may buy the last of the old model and just keep that forever.

 

there, this is my first post, so please go easy on me (I am planning to go talk to the dealer today about buying a Prius. There will probably be one in my garage by the end of the week).

I realize that may Prius owners are happy with the performance of their Prius, but it’s definitely one of the things that has kept me from buying one. There is still part of me that is torn between getting a Prius and getting a new hybrid Camry. Ultimately I decided that because my husband will be driving the car 60 miles a day, that the mileage was more important that my desire for performance.

But if there was a Prius that had the current mileage and better performance, I would definitely buy that instead and be able to leave the reservations behind.

So of course then I start to think... well should I not buy this Prius now, if there is a new model coming out... But I really have to replace my husband's 2000 Cadillac STS this month, so I can't wait. And that's when it hit me...

I might be totally off base but it occurs to me that by making this next Prius different, Toyota might actually be preserving the resale value of the existing model I am about to buy.

What do you think? How will this new Prius affect the current Prius's resale value? Now and after it is actually available?

 

it seems like the argument for this gen 3 prius is that it is part of a larger plan including other vehicles such as a mini van etc.

however no such plan has been announced, only hinted at and mildly at that. so without such extra vehicles your arguments are irrelevant making this new prius not a good idea.

Think of it in terms of how much improved the gen2 is over gen1.

gen3 does not seem like much of an improvement as gen1 to gen2 so in my mind that makes this proposed gen3 not worth manufacturing.

 

I too wish the Prius was not heading in this direction, but business wise I can see the sense of it. Even without any other models, the new Prius will still be the most efficient vehicle on the market of any size. Therefore, they should retain pretty much all of the growing pool of Prius buyers. By making it a little bigger, a little faster and a little sportier looking they will help attract new buyers as well.

I would assume that the other new models will be pretty much ready to go, but from a business perspective Toyota has very little incentive to release them now. My guess is they will hold those cards until needed to fend off market entires by other manufacturers. They'll have the Lexus Prius to fend off BMW diesels or other high end hybrids, a small model to fend off Honda's next hybrid entry, a van in case GM or someone else decides to try that market space, and a PHEV version in case GM actually gets the Volt out. But in the mean time, with a healthy and often growing market share in pretty much all segments, why would they release any of these now (or even make announcements that tell their competitors that they are ready)? Lets not forget Toyota is a business, not a benevolent developer of green tech trying to save the planet.

Rob

 

I thought Prius showcases the hybrid technology in a way that it can defies the conventional wisdom of the traditional powertrains.

Based on a figure from the Toyota's THSII (HSD) page, I edited it to show what to expect from the next generation. I think this picture is worth a thousand words.

 

By what metric are people thinking that gen 3 is not enough of an improvement over gen 2? Looking at the jump from Gen 1 to Gen 2, it was 5 mpg (12%), while G2 to G3 is reported to be 7 mpg (15%). Size and power will both increase, as it did from G1 to G2.

So I don't get people saying it is not even worth making. 55mpg is still going to be significantly higher than any other car available. Who wouldn't like it to be 60 or 70 mpg? But to act like that is the standard that has to be met has no foundation when looking at the extent of changes in previous generations.

As efusco has said, many people still perceive the Prius as being slow and boring to drive. Things that Toyota can do to improve those things (within reason), while still improving fuel economy is a win-win. This way more people are attracted to the Prius that wouldn't have been otherwise and more gas is saved. Let's face it, the Prius was on the lower end of the segment when it came to speed and traditional methods of evaluating performance. I don't begrudge Toyota bringing Prius into the middle of the pack (the 4 cyl Camry has 158 hp). If Toyota was appearing to come out with the new Prius like the HAH of years past, then I think there would be a legitimate concern.

 

So the new Prius will be larger AND faster AND get better fuel mileage?

I can see why so many of you are angry.

 

I was at Kohls (the department store) the other day. They had a placard near the mall entrance, giving away a Prius. The strange thing was, the picture of the prius they had on the sign was a sedan, not the current hatchback model. Could it have been a picture of a generation I? Or of the new 2009 model? I didn't have a camera with me, if another member happens to pass by a Kohls, could they double-check that promotional placard?