On the local news 10 minutes ago it was announced that a gas distributor out of El Paso delivered diesel mislabeled as unleaded to over 30 gas stations in Albuquerque. They mentioned 16 Shell stations, Costco, and independents, and showed cars in repair shops having diesel dumped out of their gas tanks. The distributor would not provide a list of the stations contaminated. I'm glad I gassed up last week!
Great, more worries for those of use who are already scared about filling up the prius at the local gas station. Maybe we should start checking the fuel like they do with airplanes... I wonder who will be stuck footing the repair bills for this one? hwell:
They said on the news that the distributor will pay for the repairs. Supposedly no permanent engine damage. Empty fuel tank and fuel lines, replace fuel filter(s). Of course, the distributor was not answering phone calls. Also, indicates that the same gas (or diesel ) is distributed to Shell stations along with much cheaper stations. A link to the story... KRQE - Albuquerque, New Mexico - News, Video, Weather Forecast, Sports, Community, Health, Homes | KBIM - KREZ | Refiner promising fixes for gas-diesel mix-up
Is a switch deadly either way? (gas in a diesel or diesel in a gas vehicle) I seem to remember one was was bad. Could someone explain what happens?
A diesel engine can burn gasoline. In fact a diesel can run on almost anything you can pump into the cylinders, including its own lubricating oil. Two bad things about gasoline in a diesel: 1) Low lubricity. While not great, diesel fuel has some lubricating qualities that are used to keep the injector pumps working. Gasoline has very little lubricity. 2) Flammability. Gasoline vapors are explosive. Gasoline fuel systems are built to different standards than diesel fuel systems. On the other hand, gasoline engines don't like diesel at all. Diesel doesn't vaporize into a flammable gas the way gasoline does. A gasoline engine trying to run on all diesel just won't work. The diesel fuel will not vaporize properly and therefore will not burn in the cylinders. In most cases of mis-filling, you don't have 100% diesel fuel in your gas tank. A gasoline-diesel mixture may run in a gasoline engine if the ratio is not too severe. You will get a lot of smoke and reduced power. Carbon deposits will occur with extended operation. Tom
A I recall, the deisel won't fire in your ICE because it needs more compression and hotter ignition. The unleaded will fire more aggressively and probably cause the knock sensor to react quickly. I doubt that either will damage anything, but I'm not really sure. Tom
Gasoline in a diesel engine - I would expect damage. Pistons holed at worst, injectors damaged at least. Diesel in a gas engine - the engine will not run for long, if at all. It may start on the gasoline already in the injector system, but then slow and stop. Diesel fuel will be injected into the cylinders, and will soak into any carbon deposits already there. Once you drain out the diesel fuel and start the engine, the burning gasoline will "explode" the diesel soaked into the deposits, "cleaning" the engine. The junk released -could- cause problems, but usually doesn't. Been there, done that (have the "T" shirt). But not with the Prius, -yet-.
Petrol in a diesel can result in major damage to the fuel pump. The fuel pump is designed to be lubricated by the fuel. Diesel fuel pressure is in the 1000 to 2000PSI range and common rail injection pressure even higher.
Your description sounds exactly like what's happening to the affected vehicles. Almost all the stations here fill from the same tank at the distribution yard where the diesel from the pipeline went into the big unleaded tank. 40 stations in Abq and Santa Fe (17 Shells, all 3 Costcos, and an Allsups were identified) that the news knows about, the distributor/refinery is keeping the list of contaminated stations secret, I assume because people will avoid those stations. I've been wondering if it's possible to get 100% of the diesel out of the underground tanks and how they do that. I would think the diesel would be heavier so would be stratified at the bottom of the undergound tank, maybe they just put a hose on the bottom and pump until gas comes out. I've heard that Giant stations have their own refinery, maybe I'll fill up there for a couple months. There's already talk of a class-action suit. How would a Prius handle the diesel... since the engine automatically fires up, will it keep trying to do that and for how long until it throws error codes?
not that i would recommend it, but obviously guy did not smell the stuff. definitely cant mistake the differences in odors
It's not necessary to do that. Various petroleum products will intermix without much harm as long as the concentrations are low. That's why the petroleum industry can use the same tanks, tankers, and pipelines to ship different products. They make an effort to keep the products from intermixing, but only to a degree. Tom
That's right. An uncle of mine was stationed at Ft Greely in Alaska in the mid 1960's. There was a pipeline called Haines that ran from the port of Haines through Ft Greely, Eielson AFB, and another base He wasn't with pipeline ops, but claimed they routinely sent JP (Jet fuel), DFA (Diesel Fuel - Arctic blend), and Mogas in the same line, with "pigs" used to separate the product. Apparently it worked very well There is no such thing as "pure" gasoline or "pure" diesel. The same pipelines, tank farms, etc are used to store different products. As long as a doofus isn't involved somewhere in the system, everything works ok As far as a gasoline motor running on diesel or kerosene - when I was a child my parents had a remote cabin that we flew in with a floatplane. There was a 1,800 watt Winco generator with a B&S motor (Back when Briggs actually made a fairly good small motor). It actually ran on kerosene for economy. It was started on gasoline, with a small 1 qt reservoir. Once warmed up and running ok, you moved the lever from gasoline to diesel, and it ran on the kerosene. Seemed to run just fine, but perhaps it was tuned to run on distilate?
Wow, the cost of kero, you wouldn't do that these days. The tanker that delivers the fuel to the petrol station will on day have diesel in a cell, the next avgas and the following trip petrol so removing the diesel completely isn't a problem. My last tank of E10 smelled like diesel but the engine is running fine. Didn't look like diesel but the smell was foul.
So I'm still concerned; I filled up Tues evening at Shell on Juantabo & Candelaria. Have only driven 30 miles which means less than half a gallon of gas sucked through the system, I can't help but wonder if the bad gas hasn't run through yet, but hopefully I'm safe anyway. I guess I'll find out tomorrow when I drive to SF.
They are also saying it depends on how empty your tank was when you filled up. You might be worse off if you had a nearly empty tank. My wife works with someone who took off work today... he gassed up at Costco Tuesday and his car was in the shop today. Hopefully they had the mess cleaned up by Tuesday evening when you got gas, but I don't know how they can fix a tank that big so quick. They are talking about it on channel 4 news right now... at $3.19 a gallon they got a good deal on diesel! News says the phones at Western Refining are overloaded and most people calling them to get repair info are getting a recording about the phone being out of order or out of service.
I'm no where near Albuquerque, but I'm curious if catalytic converters and oxygen sensors would be damaged by mixing diesel with gasoline?
Pat These days, true enough. But 30 years ago, especially 40-50 years ago, distilates like kero and diesel were literally dirt cheap. Hard to believe at one time, for exploratory drilling, diesel was used as a lubricant for the drill head. Well, not if they were drilling for water, but for anything else, diesel fuel was used. That explains a lot of the "petroleum impacted" exploration areas in Nevada, Utah, Idaho, province of Alberta, etc Things have certainly changed over the past 30 years, 100% for the better. An uncle of mine was a mechanic from WW II to when he died in the mid 1970's. He claimed that back then, it was quite common and accepted practise to have a drywell or weep field for the servicing rack. When you changed the oil, it went directly into the ground at the drywell or weep field. The other uncle of mine, who was stationed at Ft Greely, Alaska, claimed that when they cleaned out the sludge from the tank farms, they just let it go onto the ground. Later they put concrete slabs and let the JP and sludge evaporate in place He also claimed that for "fun" they would check out a Jeep, throw a drum of DFA on the back, drive off somewhere remote, and then pop away at the drum with their M1911's and M16's. Naturally, the drum would have looked like Swiss cheese with fuel dribbling out. They'd get back into the Jeep and return to the base So if those were the "good 'ole days" I think we've learned a lot
