ElectroMagnetic force field

I wonder how much EMF a TV, Monitor, digital and analog clocks, computers and high tension powerlines put out? I bet they put out as much if not more EMF than a hybrid.

Although it may be a good idea to consider and possibly work to adjust for this concern, I don't think it warrants selling the darn things. Power transmission lines and cellphones would be far more of a concern, as well as fuel burning emissions that hybrids work to minimize.

 

The mere fact that magnetic fields are present does not establish the potential for harm to the types of water based tissues found in carbon-based life forms.

The likelihood of harm from exposure to an EMF field depends largely on the frequency range produced by the energy source. For example, the energy emitted by the transmitting tower of an AM radio station using a 5,000 watt transmitter is much less likely to heat and harm tissue than the output of a 700 watt microwave oven - given an equivalent distance.

Any stray RF or other EMF energy emitted coincidentally by an elecric motor large enough to move an automobile is going to be at a relatively low primary frequency, on the order of 4 or 5 KHz or lower.

You need to get up at least into the range of 50MHz or higher, and produce a great deal more power than casual stray emissions from an electric motor, before a reason for concern would exist.

You are far more likely to be harmed by exposure to the radiation produced by a home computer (still virtually zero percent risk) than by a big electric motor on the other side of a metal firewall.

To support my argument I offer the lack of Prius owner corpses.

 

He didn't want to "waste" any money adding shielding to his car, but he was so concerned that he instead took a $7,000 loss in selling it? Sheesh. I smell a troll, or maybe a nutcase.

For much background see http://www.niehs.nih.gov/emfrapid/html/Q&A...-Workplace.html

After more 20 years of looking there is no clear connection between EMF and disease. One is far more likely to be harmed by crashing one's car than by exposure to the car's EMF. Anyone worried about these intensities and frequencies of EMF should not use a computer or a cell phone, or live in a house with electrical wiring. Or smoke. Or live in Denver. Or have a body mass index greater than 25.

 

111000101010101011011101000Drive with your tinfoil helmet on at all times! This message is encrypted so they can't decode it!!!!1010000111101011001

"Do you want to know the dark secrets of the MLB, or do you want to see Mac hit some homers?"

-m.

 

Let me try again, JeffN, to enlighten you on this subject.

There is absolutely positively no potential for any harm of any kind as a result of exposure to the kinds of EMF produced by any automobile, Hybrid or otherwise.

It won't hurt you because it can't hurt you.

Since it can't hurt you, you might be well advised not to worry about it.

There are things that can hurt you. EMF radiated by cars is not one of the things that can hurt you.

Now go worry on somebody else's shoulder.

 

how about the hundreds of thousand of welders or electric forklift, reach truck, order pickers, that have truly high power electric motors, where the operator sits or stands on them. If it was such a big concern the Workers Compensation Boards would be on their case by now because of potential liability.

 

Mister Hudson raises a very good point. If these things were harmful, people would be being harmed.

Since people are not being harmed by these things, it is reasonable to go forward with the assumption that they are not harmful.

As a general rule, harmful things cause harm, while things which are not harmful do not cause harm.

Thus we divide things, for purposes such as this exceedingly droll discussion, into two categories:

Harmful things are categorized as such on the basis of the harm that they cause.

Harmless things are all of the things that are left after the harmful things have been noted.

With hundreds of millions of automobiles in use worldwide, with perhaps over a billion human beings exposed to these automobiles on a daily basis, we hear about persons being injured when these vehicles collide every single day, but no living person on the planet has ever heard of any person suffering even the most trivial harm as a result of EMF fields produced by an automobile.

I admit, I am jumping to conclusions here, but with nobody anywhere ever having been harmed in any way by any automotive EMF field - I'm thinking it is not as big of a threat as, say, having a moron serve as President of the United States of America.

 

I've worked in the foundry industry for 35 years with a lot of time spent near electric induction melting furnaces. These things set up EMF to beat just about anything out there and, lo and behold, I'm still alive and actually quite healthy. A lot of the stuff people smoke, eat and drink is a lot more likely to kill them than a minor EMF in a hybrid car.

Life is a crap shoot - when your time's up, it's up. Even Jesus died! :roll:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jeffn\";p=\"59547)</div>

Wherein we find such statements as:

"Laboratory experiments have provided no good evidence that ELF electromagnetic fields are capable of producing cancer, nor do human epidemiological studies suggest that they cause cancer in general. There is however some epidemiological evidence that prolonged exposure to higher levels of power frequency magnetic fields, is associated with a small risk of leukaemia in children. In practice, such levels of exposure are seldom encountered by the general public in the UK."

"Many other adverse health effects are claimed to be associated with power frequency electromagnetic fields. However there is little scientific evidence to support these claims and the current body of evidence does not show that exposure to EMF below guideline levels presents a human health hazard."


The 1979 Wertheimer and Leeper study in the US which started interest in the subject found a weak correlation between cancer and living near power lines, but they didn't control for exposure to the herbicides that were commonly used in prior decades to kill weeds under those power lines.

The idea is not ridiculous, but the fact that studies remain negative to inconclusive after 25 years of looking says that any connection is extremely weak. Even if this is real, it would be far better for public health if everyone drove a Prius, thereby preventing thousands of deaths annually from lung and heart disease, oil production accidents and wartime deaths defending oil producers.

 

someone got an Insight at a really good price.

 

There is a fairly large number of people who believe that low-frequency EMF (e.g. power lines) and non-ionizing radiation (e.g. microwaves) are hazzardous. There is some experimental evidence in their favor, though there appears to be far more evidence against them. In any case, it's an extremely low statistical number.

The risks people are willing to take, and the risks they reject, is a very curious matter. My favorite example was a couple of decades ago when there was a spate of airline hijackings in Europe, and Americans cancelled their European vacations in droves in favor of much riskier domestic automobile trips. Even with the hijackings, air travel to and in Europe was much safer than driving, but the public perception of the risks was so distorted that they prefered the riskier travel.

The chances of dying in a car crash are probably a million times greater than the chances of being killed by your car's EMF.

On the other hand, if the guy with the Insight was that terrified of EMF, then selling might have saved him from getting an ulcer.

 

last time i checked, there was no question whatsoever on the health risks of breathing automobile exhaust.

some studies show life expectancies to be shortened by up to 5 years. in fact we have crossed a scary threshold where our childrens(born today) expected longevity might be shorter than ours.

 

I thought EMF was something that happened with a nuclear explosion and fried computers and other high tech stuff on the spot. In which case our Prii would be toast. ( Bend over, place your head between your legs and kiss your axx good by toast, I had the poster in my dorm room). As I read the data on EMF it is not good at this point. To quote a professor whom I am fond of " In the absence of data you can have any opinion you wish" With respect to EMF I think we are in the "absence of data" state. I will respect any ones opinion at this point, until we get good data. Hopefully of the prospective double blind, crossover type.

 

You know what's really funny about this is that Jeffn has "researched" the subject for years. And that he has an EMF specialist to ask about it.

Fella, Here's another one to stuff into your over-flowing worry sack!

All the pornography coming down from the satellites is flowing right through your head! And you just thought those were voices in your head. It's THEM!

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Stop trying to scare yourself and others with nonsense.

 

In 1999, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences carried out a quite definitive review of the claims of adverse health effects from electromagnetic fields some years ago. This involved a full review of all the literature (including studies that tried to replicate earlier suggestions of health effects), and further experiments. The report is available on-line:
NAS report on health effects of EMF
Here are some quotes from the executive summary:
The first contribution was the effort to replicate previous reports of extremely-low-frequency (ELF) MF biologic effects, mostly through in vitro studies. All the attempted replications in the EMF-RAPID program have had negative or equivocal results. Because these replications were conducted in an environment of increased concern for field characterization and protocol development, their results are persuasive.

The second important contribution was the completion of several investigations of the relationship between MF exposure and cancer through controlled laboratory experiments in animal models. Nearly all the animal studies relevant to the EMF-cancer issue had negative results, even at field levels that were orders of magnitude greater than the levels typical of human exposure

The outcomes of the animal experiments completed under EMF-RAPID, like those conducted elsewhere, do not support the hypothesis that MF exposure is involved in the carcinogenic process.

Evaluation of the question of possible health effects of power-frequency MFs is handicapped by the absence of any robust effect that can be reproduced consistently from one independent laboratory to another.

So, Prius owners, you can drive without tinfoil (or mu-metal) hats and be just fine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas\";p=\"59658)</div>

Electromagnetic fields happen any time electrons move. There's an EMF around any wire that has current flowing through it. A changing EMF generates a current flow in any nearby conductor. That's how transformers work. Put a cassette tape too close to a transformer and it can degrade or erase it.

A nuclear explosion generates really big EMF, causing really big induced currents, and damaging electronic devices. But we're surrounded by all sorts of lesser EMFs. The Prius has two hefty motor-generators, so it's got more EMF than a conventional car. As Sailboss suggests, if you need stuff to worry about, and war, famine, imminent economic collapse, the end of oil, drunk drivers, and pollution seem too mundane for you, EMF may be your choice.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sailboss\";p=\"59664)</div>

So where do I stand to get the best reception?