Prius-Segway Challenge

When I lived in NYC, at our first Segway meet on June 4, 2003, 12 Segways went from the UN area to Rockefeller Plaza during rush hour (5:30 pm) and while the sidewalks were crowded there was not one incident.


The Segway, while it can go 12.5 mph, can also crawl at .5 mph or any speed in-between. It's top speed can be regulated by changing the key used to start it up, so if you want to set top speed at 4 mph, just start it with the appropriate key. And at top speed it only takes a few feet at the most to stop. It can turn in it's own footprint. A bicycle cannot do that!

Do you realize that mobility chairs can go faster than 12.5 mph and take up a lot more room on a sidewalk than a Segway. In Las Vegas people are renting them so they can conserve their energy for the tables.

And in every city, local law state that bicycles are not allowed on the sidewalk, yet we see them there all the time while in over 40 states Segways are classified as EPAMD which state they are a pedestrian and allowed by law on the sidewalks.

I found that those most vocal about the dangers of the Segway have never been on one and have never seen one on in real life. They don't understand the technology and/or mechanics of the machine.

Just my .02 cents.

Now let's get back to some prius talk

 

I don't follow the logic here. I can come to a completely stop on my bike, and wait a minute or three for the red light to change... without ever unclipping from my pedals. Even easier to ride slowly. I can steer, I can stop, I can ride as slow as a Segway, or faster than a NEV. I ride at walking speed all the time... every day. That comes with teaching your toddler to ride. What's the problem with bikes again?

 

Darell, I think you missed the point (probably intentionally): There isn't a problem with bicycles; the point is that Segways are even safer. Bicycles are safe, Segways are safer than bicycles, therefor Segways are safe.

The fact is, they are both dangerous when driven by inexperienced drivers. Either can do a lot of damage. Bicycles are faster, but Segways are heavier. Driven by experienced drivers, the Segway has a much shorter turning radius (zero) and can weave through a crowd more easily than a bicycle, however, a good bicycle rider knows when to slow down, stop, or take a different route. Either can mix with pedestrians when properly ridden.

Tom

 

It does not make economic sense to add a NEV or EV city car like the Xebra in addition to a garage that already has a gas car for every driver in the family. What does make sense for many two-car or three-car families is to replace one gas car with an EV. Most families do not need two long-range cars.

In my case, I don't "save" money by having my Xebra in addition to the Prius, because the Xebra will never "pay for itself" in the money I save on gas by not driving the Prius. (Just as the gas savings in a Prius will not "pay for" the difference between a new Prius and a used Civic.) But for me, it's a decision to use as little gas as I can, and most days the Xebra is all the car I need. Most days I would not drive the Prius any faster or farther than the Xebra can go, or haul more than the Xebra can hold.

Six-minute mile is a common standard for fitness??? My doctor says I'm fit and I've never been able to run a mile in 6 minutes. I ran an 8-minute mile once: an all-out sprint. I used to run between 9 and 9.5 minutes per mile for 3 miles, though these days I'm down to 11.5 minutes. And my doctors still think I'm fairly fit.

A ten-minute mile is fit. A six-minute mile is athletic.

Shit! I'm impressed!. I could barely stay upright when I was moving, and to stop without falling over I had to plan each part of the maneuver in advance.

 

I'm with you, I have never been able to stop without putting my feet down. I can ride my motorbike at less than a walking pace but only just.

A segway is a motorcycle, it has 2 wheels and a motor. It fails to comply with vehicle standards there fore it isn't legal on the roads in Australia. The road includes the footpaths.

 

You spelled it wrong and the term is neo-luddism.

I'd like to have a Segway. I don't want them on sidewalks where I am walking though. No bicycles there either.

 

In the case of bicycles, I'd add "and roads" to your statement. I rarely make use of bike paths, because the ones around here don't actually go anywhere of interest... practically useless for transportation purposes.

Some of the scenery is nice, however, so they're a fairly pleasant choice for recreational rides.

 

agreed. i bought one because it replaces a Corolla that was driven daily and it prevents very short trips in the Prius. i will never save $14,000 in gas by driving it. granted my signature line is a worst case scenario as to the money i am saving... realistically, its probably at least 20-40% higher depending on the weather since the stats are based on the average fuel economy of the Prius and the Corolla. the Zenn mileage replaces trips where those vehicles would be getting very very much lower mileage.

 

agreed again... to be as "fit as a marine" you only have to do 9 minute miles.... granted, that is with full gear... but take the gear off, and 6 minutes is impressive by ANY standard

 

Thanks, daniel and dave, for adding some more sanity to the "electric car or not?" decision. You're right; the only sensible thing is to replace the Volvo with a Zenn or Zap.

One major problem with a Neighborhood Electric Vehicle (NEV) is that my small town is isolated; the only route to other towns is via highways. (Check out 93428 on Google Maps.) That means an NEV could never be taken out of town for service. Besides, the nearest Zenn dealer is over 100 miles away (Zip 93210).

Still, I like the idea of using an NEV on all my <3 mile trips around town. Last year I made about 260 of these trips in town; this month (my busiest, and probably unusual) I'll hit 60 trips. This doesn't count about 10 trips into town per week.

I can reach every address here in Cambria on local roads, since an NEV is allowed to cross the highway.

Maybe it's time I contact the Zenn or Zap folks. I like the Zenn better, but it's only a two-seater; most of my town trips use three seats. But the Zenn is so much more conventional than the four-seat Zap.


As for an 11-minute mile, in 1985-6 (I was 34 then) I used to WALK an 11-minute mile.

 

11 minute walking mile??

a decent jogging pace for most people is 5-6 mph... that is 10 to 12 minutes per mile.

as far as servicing an EV.... well, put air in tires, plug it in, top off windshield wiper fluid and... and...uhh..hmm... and uhh...and...

hmmm... i'll have to get back with you on that...but my dealer is only 60 miles away and they come to me if i have any issues... or at least they say they will. havent had them come out yet, but only have had it barely two months... so we will see

60 short trips in a month!! that is a lot.. that is 2 per day... my Zenn is used as a daily commuter 6 days a week. RT are either 13.8 or 12.2 miles and in very heavy mileage-killing traffic (more so on the short route since her hours are 8-4.30 and she works in the middle of Lacey. Lacey Wa is a small town that grew because its only a few miles from the state capital. unfortunately, the roads were not laid out very well and Lacey is used to get to Olympia from 3 different directions, hence a traffic nightmare!!)

the weather has been colder lately and even in the Prius, the Lacey commute has us down to 42 mpg... that is 3 mpg lower than my lowest tank ever and 7 mpg below my normal winter average. granted, a new driver makes a difference, but up until recently, the difference has been only 2 mpg...nothing wrong with the car... its the drive

 

Honest, I'd worked up to an 11-minute fast stride mile. I only went the one mile, and I do have long legs.

I figure the same as you for maintenance on an EV, as long as there are no failures.

On average, I probably make 10 local trips per week; this month has been very busy. My lifetime Prius MPG over 22k miles is 42.5MPG, since most trips are short and Cambria has hilly sections.

I'm thinking my nearest Zap dealer is over 150mi away.

Here's another factor: Because of PG&E's tiered rate structure, my electric rate is 30c/kwh. As you cross a certain usage, the price jumps. My winter usage is always higher than summer (no need for A/C on the coast). But 30c per kwh runs up the cost. (PG&E requires a rate change with an EV; it seems to be a complicated time-of-use pricing scheme, which I couldn't figure out on a quick read.)

 

omg!! 30 cents??
if my electric rates were that high, i would not do EV's either...

i feel kinda stupid now complaining about the loss of the Bonneville Administration chargeback that was terminated last year for us. before that, we were paying under 6 cents/kwh.... now it nearly 9 cents...

 

Sorry that we've sorta hijacked this thread.

What's the full-charge kwh for the Zenn? Their site is so so pretty with all that flash animation, but it's light on real info. Beauty and no brains.

 

just about impossible to say since a full charge depends on the entropy of the reaction and that is temperature dependent so batery capacity varies quite a bit

i average just about 3½ miles per kw though.

 

And with your typical range figure, then we can divide:

range / 3.5 = approx kw to charge

Just to get a rough guess.

Conservatively guessing:

35 miles on a 5kw charge. That's about $1.50 for me. That's still about 75mpg or better.

 

ummm... replace batteries in calculator.... 35 miles would be more like 10 kw...but i think you would do a bit better since my range seems to be slightly less as the weather gets colder.

in your area, Rick, with your electricity costs, i would seriously look at a small wind generator if you have the space to put one up... im guessing you probably have plenty of breeze...being that close to the coast, fog may be an issue, so solar might not be cost effective.

the turnaround cost on these things is getting better and better and most base that on electricity costs that are much lower than yours.

 

I watched "Living With Ed" when it was on. I'd thought about a wind generator. Could help!

 

Hi Dave and Daniel,

That was the goal we were supposed to reach in High School. I never atained it then and my best was 6 min, 30 or os. I was well back in the pack, within in the last group of 10 out of 60 or so kids. Think it was called the President Kenedy Fitness Challenge. We had one guy who did near 4 min. I was never a great runner. I could beat 90 percentile to the first 10 yards in a sprint, then, but no top gear, let alone a cruising one. Unfortunately the 10 yard sprint is not an awarded competition in any athletic competition.

If people can comonly do the 10 mph mile, in the 50 yard sprint many people are going to be able to go allot faster than what they can cruise at for a mile.

15 to 20 mph in short bursts is probably doable by allot of late teenage to 25 year old people. Which is faster than a Segway. This link indicates the top speed of humans is in excess of 27 mph - http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004737.html .

 

Some race walkers can walk faster than a lot of folks run. So I believe 11 min/mile. But I break into a jog at around 15 min/mile (4 mph). I am very concerned about my own sudden drop from 9.5 min/mile to 11.5 min/mile. If it had happened gradually over a period of years I'd say it was normal aging. But it happened almost over night. Also, I used to jog at right around 85% of my maximum heart rate, and now I'm doing exceptionally well if I can jog at 75% of my maximum.

On another topic, my Xebra with seven 140-ah 12-v batteries would go over 40 miles on a charge, and had a top speed on level ground of 40 mph. I generally got 3 miles per kwh. But the Xebra has poor battery management and a lot of folks have had problems with the batteries. Me among them. So it's back at the dealer now having a LiFePO battery pack installed. I'm expecting a 35-mile range since the new pack has less capacity, but is also much lighter. I think I was concerned that a Zenn would not have the range I needed to be able to go all the way downtown and back.