Prius vs. HUMMER: Exploding the Myth

Does everyone here know what an H3 really is? It's on a Chevy Colorado platform. It has an Inline 5 cyilinder engine that makes 245 horse and 245 torque. But thats changing in 2008 as it's receiving a 5.3L V8.

 

You guys really shouldn't be feeding the trolls! His "150 year" assumption leaves you enough to go on, doesn't it? With logic like that, it's surprising that he's able to log on to the "internets".

Oops.. look at me, feeding the trolls too... doh!


Dave

 

what is a troll?

 

See post 36 of this thread for a brilliant example.

Lives under a bridge
only comes out to block progress
disagrees with everything
uses interest groups biased research as a references
Will not accept scientific data
eventually resorts to name calling
Normally educated to at least year/grade 7 but rarely beyond year/grade 9
Often has trouble finding a forum for the things they are really interested in like guns, drinking beer and big trucks

 

Troll:

Also,

Guy in big overpowered gas guzzling boat, outfitted with sufficient electronics to make it into an anti-fish battleship, who roils the waters, making huge amounts of noise, spewing pollution, and spreading bait all over the place, hoping some unsuspecting victim (and some who should know better, but cannot resist the challenge), will go for it, and end up dangling on the end of a vicious hook.

 

There's a lot of myth, urban legend, and misinformation out there on hybrid vehicle batteries and vehicle production, thanks to a flawed marketing paper by CNW and a poorly researched student newspaper article that keep getting quoted...

Anyhow, I suggest reading:
Prius Versus Hummer: A Nickel for Your Thoughts:
http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200711/mrgreen_mailbag.asp#headaches
Battery Toxicity: http://www.hybridcars.com/battery-toxicity.html
Hummer versus Prius: "Dust to Dust" Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science:
http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of_science/case_studies/hummer_versus_prius.html
Prius Versus HUMMER: Exploding the Myth:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Aut...us_HUMMER_Exploding_the_Myth.S196.A12220.html
Giving Directions: No, the Hummer Actually Isn't More Energy Efficient Than A Prius, Let's Put This "Debate" To Rest:
http://www.betterworldclub.com/articles/hummer-not-more-efficient.htm
Heard the One About the Hummer?:
http://www.toyota.com/html/dyncon/2007/september/hummervprius.html

Usually the mythic "article" from The Mail on the nickel in the hybrid cars' NiMH batteries is quoted from a now retracted article. The retraction that clears up this bit of misinformation is at: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages...ews.html?in_article_id=417227&in_page_id=1770
(They were using data from the early 1970's about the INCO-Sudbury nickel mine, which was more than 20 years before the first hybrids needed NiMH batteries, and the plant has greatly cleaned themselves up and reforested the area. If you were to add up the amount of nickel in the million+ hybrids sold since 1997, the total is less than 1% of the world's annual nickel production (far more nickel is used for stainless steel, for example).)

 

Here's one more nail to add to the coffin. As part of their emissions certification, manufacturers apparently have to specify the "operational life" of the vehicle.

Manufacturer Specified Operational Life:

2008 Cadillac Escalade: 150k miles
2008 Hummer H3: 120k miles
2008 Hummer H2: 120k miles
2008 Chevy Tahoe: 120k miles
2008 Lincoln Navigator: 120k miles

2008 Toyota Prius: 150k miles
2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid: 150k miles
2008 Honda Civic Hybrid: 150k miles
2008 Nissan Altima Hybrid: 150k miles
2008 Ford Escape Hybrid: 150k miles
2008 Toyota highlander Hybrid: 120k miles
2008 Chevy Malibu Hybrid: 120k miles
2008 Saturn Vue Hybrid: 120k miles
2006 Honda Insight: 120k miles

According to the manufacturers that build them, there is no evidence for a hybrids lasting 100k miles, and full size SUVs lasting 250k-300k.

No data is available for the H1, as they never had to emissions test it as a passenger vehicle

Interesting though that apparently the H1 needs an $1144 service every 12,000 miles. A full change of pretty much every fluid (coolant, transmission fluid, transfer case fluid, gear hub fluid) that often can't be helping it environmental impact a whole lot. Interesting too that the manufacturer's recommended service booklet only goes to 60k miles

http://www.rampchevrolet.com/ramphummer/pdf/maintenanceschedule.pdf


I absolutely love some of the owner comments (admittedly out of context)

"I have had to do about as much repoair as any American made vehicle that is 10 years old and 63k miles on it."

"I picked up my HUMMER at Denver and had to drive 1,200 miles to get home. The engine "hums" and it makes a lot of noise, but every mile was worth it even though my whole body still aches one week later."

"Everywhere I go people turn heads and a couple of time we almost caused accidents."

"It got 13 miles to the gallon driving back at an average speed of 70 mile an hour. I know that the milage is less in town but not an issue with me."

"Hard to park. I just park where there are not a lot of other cars around."

"Its designed to be easy to fix, and that sometimes means its easy to break, but with proper maintenence its not overly bad."

"I have only had one major problem with mine"

"trust me though, little problems turn into big problems"

"THATS WHAT SEPERATES THE BOYS FROM THE MEN."

"Lastly these things are unbelievably expensive to maintain, ($800.00 not unusual for basic service)"

"vibrations from motor and driving would unlosen every screw in the interior"

"and everytime something goes wrong you swear your going to get rid of it until you drive it again and you realize you cant do without it."

"Bring lots of cash into the fight. It cost alot to buy, and more to keep. Fuel mileage is poor (bank on about 12 MPG), maintanence is expensive, and they really do break down alot (that''s why the Marines have alot of Mechanics...)"

"I get passed by practically every SUV both big and small out there."

"If your not used to a diesel vehicle, be prepared with ear plugs and wads of money"

"This is for a man who is in charge of his life."

"It cost a bundle. But then so does my wife,"

"No getting around it this pig drinks petro like my last name were GETTY."

"high matinence, and poor gas mileage, but what do you expect"

"The handling capablities are good for something that weighs 6500-7000lbs."

"the only thing wrong with it is not enough people have one"

"Constantly requires attention for service"

Hummer H1 Reviews

You have to laugh don't you? Or cry perhaps At least reading these made me feel better about the maintenance costs, reliability, comfort, acceleration and mileage of the Land Rover I used to drive

Rob

 

Just to add my 2 cents to this over-discussed subject, I put up a blog at EVWorld on this, too long to reprint here. Evworld's editor reported on a rebuttal & cross-rebuttal of this subject not so long ago, and AAA just put some data from the CNW report into their latest newsletter as if it were fact, so it seems this is still alive, unfortunately.

 

yes a v8 5,3 liter it also gets better mpg from 10mpg to 5 mpg
al you want in a hummer

sorry about that but ... posting something about the hummer like that

 

Hey now! I like the 5.3L. I made 717rwhp with one and still got 14mpg in a 5,400lb truck.

 

While poking around The Straight Dope website just now, I see that Cecil Adams, the world's smartest man (he states so himself, and since he's the world's smartest man he should know, right?) addresses this issue.

Best quote: Talking about George Will quoting the infamous "Dust-to-Dust" article, Cecil says, "Only a fool or a commentator with an ax to grind would take such nonsense seriously."

 

hummer=300K miles, yea freakin right...no way, my stepdads was never right since we bought it so we got rid of it, those things are a POS

toyotas on the other hand ive seen hit 200K+ miles no problem, our old family previa has 240K+ miles on it, and still going

 

Has anybody seen the March 20 2008 CNW response to all the Slate criticism of his Dust to Dust report? He just gets more and more ridiculous. Some excerpts:

"One very simple example: Prius tires last approximately one quarter of the miles of those on a Toyota Corolla. No Prius life-cycle study, aside from ours, calculates the energy and resources consumption necessary to make those additional three sets of tires."

"6. A headquarters Toyota executive stated to Australian media that the Prius was likely to be a 100,000-mile vehicle before major repairs, battery replacements or other significant maintenance was required. I am sure he is no longer allowed to discuss such topics with the press."

http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/Response2 Slate March 2008.pdf

 

Apparently the CNW report is only now making its way to one Hummer Forum. And the reaction from its members? Priceless...

Hummer vs Prius

 

got this from that message board:

true could be said about the Prius, or any car for that matter LOL

 

I enjoyed how the person who posted the correct information about NiMH battery life was banished as a troll. :madgrin:

 

It took me over an hour to edit (and re-edit) my post to actually get it to successfully submit. Their forum software was incredibly buggy and seemed to choke over apostrophes and numerous other characters. It also has some other weird nice person behavior along the way.

Knowing the idiocy of the members there, I expect to be branded as a troll and banned too.

 

I've heard that that forum is full of spybots and other nasty vermins. Beware.

 

I observed how that went. Some of the nasty vermin were other forum members. Do keep in mind that gas prices must not be hurting them too much. Also, some people don't do to well with the truth. The attitude on the Hummer forums was somewhat a stick-the-head-in-the-sand one. It is worth noting that none of them could offer a real rebuttal or actual debate of your points. "Go Screw!!!" hardly qualifies as a rebuttal.

 

hm. interesting. makes me chuckle how a person pointing out how extensively the article has been debunked is clearly troll-like behavior and they must be banished. clearly, as long as nobody says it's a lie must mean that it's true.