<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 29 2007, 06:09 AM) [snapback]545366[/snapback]</div> I disagree. I don't know about you but when I go car shopping I start by looking at what I can afford. I suspect a lot of people do something similar because most people in my part of the world don't drive the top of the range cars. I went shopping with a budget of $25,000 or there abouts. That budget would buy me a new car or a much better used car. To be perfectly frank I believe purchasing a new car is one of the most foolish things a person can do, however I was prepared to be foolish enough to buy a new Corolla but no way was I foolish enough to buy a new Prius. Sorry but I didn't have $5,000 - $7,000 to throw away in depreciation in the first month which is what I would have lost had I bought a new $37,400 Prius. Now there is every chance people who go shopping for a new $37,000 car don't normally look at Corolla but instead would look at Camry, Commodore, Falcon, Mitsubishi 380. Lets do the sums on a Mitsubishi 380 VRX. VRX with alloys and spoiler = $36,990AU Fuel consumption from ADR testing = 11.4/10.8 (city/country) difference between VRX and Prius = 7L/100km versus $410.00 more to buy. At 25,000km city driving per year payback time is 2 months and a couple of days. BTW the Mitsubishi would half in value over about 2 to 3 years while a Prius would lose 30% value on past price performance. People who are going to point out the 380 is much bigger than the Prius, it is over 400mm longer should note that the space people occupy is the space between the wheels. The wheelbase of Prius is only 50mm (2 inches) shorter than 380 although the 380 is 100mm wider. http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/#/web/...amp;vehicle=380
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Nov 28 2007, 02:16 PM) [snapback]545424[/snapback]</div> I just about ALWAYS buy cars new, even if there is a steep depreciation. It depends on how long you plan to keep your cars. I plan on a minimum ten year run with every new car I buy (the single exception being the Jeep Grand Cherokee I traded in for the Prius). If you keep a car that long, the depreciation at the beginning is amortized nicely and is no big deal.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(a priori @ Nov 26 2007, 07:03 AM) [snapback]544220[/snapback]</div> Exactyl! To sort of copy the poster at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showt...oof#post4985017, how much money does a V8 engine or sunroof save you? Answer, it doesn't. You won't find any article on how V8 engines or sunroofs save $. Why can't having a hybrid powertrain be another feature which also happens to allow one to have lower emissions and pollutants, reduces our dependence on a non-renewable resource much of which comes from unstable regions of the world or countries that don't like us and also recaptures some energy that would become useless heat and brake dust?
I can't think of a single car I've bought that has "saved me money." Every car has been an expense, NOT an investment or money-saver. We traded in a Sienna van on the Prius. Our options were another van (which would have been about $28K with the features we wanted) or the Prius (we paid $22,300 for it). We weren't interested in a Corolla because we had one before, and as the kids got bigger it just didn't have enough power to haul all 5 of us. So right off the bat - the Prius "saved" us about $5K over the Sienna. But do we really feel that way? Not really - the Prius and the Sienna are completely different vehicles. With the Sienna, we would have had more space in the back to haul things, but we wouldn't have had the hybrid engine or the MFD. As far as fuel goes...I recently did a quick computation of what we would've spent on the Sienna (we were getting an average of 21mpg on the one we had) vs. what we've spent on the Prius. I was VERY conservative in saying $2.50/gallon - when in reality it's closer to $3. From the May-October time period, we saved approximately $475 in fuel over what the Sienna would have cost. So probably it will be $1000 less per year to drive the Prius than the Sienna.
If I get any questions at all, it's more along the lines of .... how do you like that electric car? People don't know unless they seek out authoritative information (like PriusChat). If they depend on traditional media, well, that doesn't raise their level of understanding. Extra or premium cost of the Prius? I had a car payment anyway, I traded in that vehicle for the Prius, the vehicle I traded in cost more new than the Prius, and the payments were higher. So the initial cost of the Prius was smaller, my Prius payments are smaller (over the same number of months), and the Prius resale value is higher. Add in the fact that the Prius gets more than twice the gas mileage of my previous vehicle, and I'm left thinking, what "extra cost" are they talking about??
i find that fastest way to shut someone up especially now that gas is $3.14 a gallon is to casually complain that im NOW over $25 every two weeks for gas.
A stanford graduate lady told me,"You know, hybrids do not save the planet, how they manufacture the hybrid cars is a lot more destructive to the nature than they manufacture regular cars" how am I supposed to answer that?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(siliconhybrid @ Nov 29 2007, 05:03 PM) [snapback]545825[/snapback]</div> How about asking her for some facts to support her position? How is it that the costs to manufacture a (on average) smaller car would take more energy, more resources or create more pollution than the average or larger than average car? I think the whole issue is the concern that creation of a large bank of NiMH batteries causes such damage to the environment. Thankfully, the Prius doesn't have to use those monstrous 12V batteries used in other cars (ever seen a lead smelter?). Thankfully, the Prius uses less rubber in its tires, less oil in the engine, fewer moving parts to be replaced, and puts so little pressure on the brake pads that they don't need to be replaced. Don't forget how much less brake dust is created as well. Oh yeah! I just about forgot -- IT USES LESS GASOLINE!!
She is believing that CNW article from years ago that has been proven false by many other sources. Check out this Myths and Rebuttals thread: http://priuschat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26050
As the owner of a MINI, two BMWs and a Prius I can comment. The Prius is a really slow car... On the other hand, it is perfectly adequate for non-sporty driving and basic transportation and it does allow you to make fun of people driving serious gas-guzzlers. I tell my neighbor that I drive the Prius because the MINI only gets 30mpg and that 30mpg is not very good these days. He tells me his SUV gets 14mpg! Yikes! My BMW M5 is a 340hp, 165mph 4-door which is regarded as a gas guzzler and it can manage over 20mpg. I figure that by replacing a 7-series BMW with the MINI and replacing the Subaru wagon with the Prius, we have probably cut our family gas consumption by 50% this year. Not bad. The Prius does deliver better mileage than other cars with its carrying capacity, but there are not too many cars that are slower (if this doesn't matter to you, OK). I have to wonder if the Prius would get better mileage if you took the battery and electric motor out and threw them away. Other cars would get better mpg if they didn't have such big engines. Does a Honda Accord really need 260+hp?
The stupid part is that light trucks (SUVs, minivans, trucks and some vans), the ones w/the worst economy are totally exempt from the gas guzzler tax yet they in the 2007 model year made up 49% of vehicles sales. To top it off, the combined fuel economy numbers are from "uncorrected" (unfudged) EPA dyno numbers of the old testing method. If they were based on "corrected" numbers and on the MY 08+ method, a ton of SUVs would face the gas guzzler tax. As for the Accord, well, there's the 2.4L inline 4 version w/177 hp. URLs below some supporting info: http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420f06042.htm http://suvs.about.com/od/fueleconomy/a/jf_gasguzzler.htm http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/mpg/fetrends/420s07001.htm
Just tell them that you bought the Prius because it is an excellent platform to drop a 350 small-block into. That's why you bought it ... you're just saving up the extra $$ to pull out the engine and electric motors. They won't understand that, either.
To the OP, just look them in the eye, smile, tap the side of your nose with your index finger and walk away. This will frustrate the crap out of them.
