Inspection (emissions) failed. What to do?

When they did the inspection the dealership had to hook the car up using the OBD II system. This test should have given them the exact reason for the failure to meet emission requirement. It should have also given them a printout showing what part of the emissions test you failed. Ask for your copy.

Then take it some place either other dealership or if it will require a simple adjustment take to your local trusted mechanic.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FBear @ Nov 13 2007, 02:40 PM) [snapback]538982[/snapback]</div>

Just curious, but shouldn't the emission control components still be under warranty if the car is only 5 years old?

Regards,

-- Ian

 

Sounds kind of fishy on a number of levels.....

1. If the car is not meeting emissions, its supposed to throw a CEL (check engine light). That is the lights main reason for being, it says "I'm not meeting emissions" or more often "I have a bad sensor so I can't tell if I'm meeting emissions".

2. If the car isn't throwing a CEL, it shouldn't know there is an emissions problem, and therefore shouldn't report a problem when they hook it up for the inspection. Generally most states don't actually test emissions any more, you just hook up the computer which asks the car if its meeting emissions. All cars were required to have this standard OBDII interface starting in 1996.

3. If the car is throwing a CEL, but lets say the the bulb is out or something so you can't see it, there would be a code associated with the light that tells them in general terms why it thinks there is a problem. You might need a more detailed scan of the Toyota specific codes to correct the problem, but it should at least tell you in what way it is failing.

4. I would think a Toyota dealer would be scanning a Toyota on a Toyota scanner to begin with? Maybe the state has a standardized inspection system they are using instead? Still seems to me like $130 is pretty steep just to plug it in and get a code.

5. I believe the warranty period for emissions related equipment is 8yr/80,000mi per federal EPA rules. Seems like the dealer would need to show that the emissions failure is not related to part of the warrantied emissions system before talking about charging you any money.

Am I off base on any of these? I would probably take it to another dealer if it were me. If thats not an option I would specifically ask them why this is not covered under you EPA emissions system warranty.

Rob

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ian MacDonald @ Nov 13 2007, 01:14 PM) [snapback]539059[/snapback]</div>

At this point, since he doesn't have his location listed in his profile, we can only wait or guess.

This is a good example of why everyone should put their location in their profile.
As far as we know, the OP lives in Ethiopia, has no warranty, emissions aren't a governmental concern, and has half a dealership to work with ("a specific Toyota diagnostics machine" being a hint of what he is doing).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Nov 13 2007, 01:43 PM) [snapback]539071[/snapback]</div>

LMAO!

It would be helpful to know if it was the sniffer test or the diagnostic test that failed.

 

Few cars do gas-analyzer emissions inspections anymore, at least in
the US. If the check-engine light is on, first thing to do is get
the diagnostic code(s) from the car and go from there. For an '02,
check that HCAC adsorber valve underneath and make sure it can turn.
[There's a pic in the training slides.]
.
_H*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Nov 13 2007, 04:49 PM) [snapback]539176[/snapback]</div>

So how are they actually measuring the emission output? There are no devices on the car in the exhaust stream that are accurate enough to test for this sort of thing.

 

OBD-II based emissions testing basically consists of asking the
car, "are you all ok?" and having the car say "yup, I'm okay." More
specifically, querying the state of various emissions-monitor tests
to see if they're a> complete, and b> passed. The car continually
does its own checking, based on expected vs. actual fuel trims, how
well the catalyst is working, periodic fuel-system leak-down tests
to make sure HC isn't escaping, etc. This is called "Mode 6" in the
scantool lingo, and there's a base set of OBD-II mandated stuff that
the inspection machines can just query the car for. They're figuring
the protocol is involved enough that people won't just build a little
board to fake up all the correct responses, and it would be illegal
to do so anyways. Another obvious check is if the MIL is on or not,
and if it comes on briefly at startup until the engine starts [or in
the case of the Prius, goes to READY mode].
.
Some inspection stuff needs to see valid engine RPM before it will
complete the tests. See this which was triggered by the combination
of the inspection facilities in Georgia having no clue, and me having
to teach the kid in the local garage how to get a Prius to idle.
.
_H*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Nov 13 2007, 06:13 PM) [snapback]539205[/snapback]</div>

So essentially it is looking at mostly theoretical calculations and not actual emissions output? The O2s will only measure so much so quickly without going to a wideband O2 unless there are other sensors after the cats that I don't know about.

 

It still sounds fishy. That's strange for a dealer IMHO. If their Toyota scanner says things are cool, they should be cool. I don't see why they would even have to try another "official scanner". As others have said, the sensors in the vehicle tell the computer if everything is within spec. For example, there's at least 2 O2 sensors. There's one in front of the catyltic converter and one behind it. It will compare the two measurements, with the aft sensor obviously displaying a lower emissions value (if it's working) and if it's within spec, it passes. There's many other sensors that work the same. They'll have a certain voltage that they'll be at if the component is operating within spec, and all is good.

I assume your check engine light works? The spec calls for the check engine light to self test when the vehicle is turned on. If the bulb is out they'll automatically fail you.

Mike

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vlad @ Nov 13 2007, 10:16 PM) [snapback]539227[/snapback]</div>

dingdingdingding....we have a winner.

They say it's out of warranty. (By 3,000 miles? Come on.)

The $130.00 is just the start for this dealership. They've got dollar signs in their eyes.

Your car runs. There are no warning lights. The first thing I'd do is take it to another dealership. At least one other. Two if necessary. I'll bet one of the next two dealerships will either be able to test your car without that $130.00 or will agree that you're close enough to being in warranty to do whatever needs to be done.

And when you find that dealership stay with them and don't go back to the first one ever again. (You can always call them on the phone and tell them you're never coming back and why.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vlad @ Nov 13 2007, 11:16 PM) [snapback]539227[/snapback]</div>

AHA! The cause of the problem rears it's ugly head!

 

well... if it's anything like here the state provides its own testing machine and they are required to use that and not the toyota scantool. so you can't fault the dealer for that, that's state policy. and of course, it's not meant to tell you WHAT is wrong, just that it passes or fails and if so, in what area.

of course once your car fails you've gotta fix it to maintain registration. and that's where the diagnostic fees come in to find out what's wrong and where to start fixing it. though $130 is a bit pricey to plug something in and read a code.

federal emissions warranty is 8 yrs/100k BUT depending on the issue it may or may not be covered under that warranty.

 

The owner's manual has a procedure in it that allows you to check to see if all your warning lights are operating properly....around pages 125 or 130 I think.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vlad @ Nov 13 2007, 07:16 PM) [snapback]539227[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Nov 13 2007, 09:48 PM) [snapback]539282[/snapback]</div>

Well there . . . that makes all the difference in the world.

BUT . . . Massachusetts is one of the states which has adopted California's emission standards.
So, like the Prii in California, your emissions should be covered for 10 years/150,000 miles.

Much better than in Ethiopia. :lol:

 

Just read your warranty manual, emissions warranty, that came with the car. They still have to diagnose the component, but if the failure is emission related and covered, it'll all be covered,even diagnosis.

 

What she wrote. Start by going to another dealer; this one is trying to hose you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Nov 13 2007, 10:13 PM) [snapback]539205[/snapback]</div>

Sort of. The on-board diagnostic system asks itself "am I ok?" periodically. The state I/M program just goes in an grabs the most recent results.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Nov 13 2007, 10:13 PM) [snapback]539205[/snapback]</div>

Correct.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Nov 13 2007, 10:13 PM) [snapback]539205[/snapback]</div>

No. Mode $06 is not regulated or generic, and is useless for an automated I/M test. All that Mode $06 does is provide a record of raw data related to the results of the various component checks performed by the monitors. That data can be useful to the technician in some cases, if he or she knows how to convert and/or interpret it. It was not developed for the technician, but for the engineer, so there's a bit of a learning curve. Now that it's being used by techs, new implementations are a tad more user-friendly.

Most of the checking is performed in Mode $01. Some state I/M systems will query Mode $09 to get the VIN.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Nov 13 2007, 08:49 PM) [snapback]539176[/snapback]</div>

Many US states still require gas-analyzer emissions inspections, either through approved independent inspection stations or through centralized testing. California, Texas, New York...