Prius Myths and their Rebuttals

If you wait long enough some things tend to debunk themselves. As a new Prius owner I was reading this thread and the link in post 24 was taken down, since it seemed to have been "misinterpreted" by some people. Here is an excerpt, if you don't want to go back and read it..

In order to prevent further misinterpretation, we have removed the article from our website. The following letter was published in the Mail on Sunday on May 13, 2007:

Your article about the Inco nickel factory at Sudbury, Canada, wrongly implied that poisonous fumes from the factory had left the area looking like a lunar landscape because so many plants and trees had died. You also sought to blame Toyota because the nickel is used, among countless other purposes, for making the Prius hybrid car batteries.

In fact any damage occurred more than thirty years ago, long before the Prius was made. Since then, Inco has reduced sulphur dioxide emissions by more than 90 per cent and has helped to plant more than 11 million trees.

 

but if you wait and do nothing, people who first heard those incorrect remarks and liked them because they supported their incorrect world-view would not bother to care to check up on whether those "facts" they heard from before are actually true.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(95S52M3 @ Nov 15 2007, 12:11 PM) [snapback]540149[/snapback]</div>

Go here and compare the Prius to any diesel you like.
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/search.asp

The only diesels that produce less pollutian or have better economy than the Prius in the combined cycle are much smaller vehicles. These are european tests and standards.

The problem in europe is the premium price for hybrids compared to diesels. Something that might change over time, especially since europe is finally clamping down on diesel emissions.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Nov 15 2007, 03:19 PM) [snapback]540153[/snapback]</div>

I've never been to Europe, so I may be way off base here, but I can't help wondering about 2 things.

1) How does the cost of petrol (that's what gas is called in Europe, right?) compare to the cost of diesel in Europe? If petrol is significantly more expensive than diesel in Europe, then it might make the diesel financially more tempting even with the great mileage the Prius gets.

2) There may just be a culture of preferring diesel in Europe that pre-dates current hybrids. A general cultural mindset of diesel=good & petrol=bad amongst a significant percentage of the population could take longer to overcome.

 

Number 2 is the right answer.
Diesel has been economy king in Europe for a long time.
In the colder climates AC is a dead weight (they don't know it helps demist)
Diesel is as easy to get as petrol.
Small cars are very popular and so are small diesels.
The standard of diesel fuel is much higher than in USA.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(95S52M3 @ Nov 15 2007, 02:51 PM) [snapback]540205[/snapback]</div>

Another environmental issue to consider is NOx, Nitrogen Oxides. NOx is responsible for a lot of the visible smog (e.g. the LA basin). Diesels produce a lot more NOx than the Prius does.

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Trio.do


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CO2 is directly related to the volume and type of fuel burned. SO the higher the consumption the more CO2. Also diesel have about 15% more energy per volume than gas, and produces around 15% more CO2 for the same volume consumed.

NOx and Hydrocarbons are 2 of the main gasses related to air pollution. If you look at the site I provided the link for, they give a nice description of the effects of each gas.

Euro emission specs are listed for differently for diesel and gas cars. They are much more relaxed on diesels, but in Euro IV and Euro V they are startign to really clamp down on NOx from diesels, thus I would suspect that the price of smaller/cheap diesel vehicles will increase substantially over the next couple of years due to the newly introduced emissions equipment required.

In the US one rule is applied for all cars and thus in CARB states diesels didn't make the cut and could no longer be sold.

Another interesting fact is that whiel diesel is easier to produce the yield per barrel of oil is also the same 15% or so lower. It weighs 15% more, and it doesn't come form nowhere. So no free lunch. SO in effect before looking at a diesel take 15% of the fuel consumption for both oil yield and CO2 and then compare further.

 

battery problem

I have one of the earliest Prius's in Hungary - about 2 years old. The only service I needed is the replacement of a key because when they tried to change the battery, the "key" broke.....
I have 47,000km on the car - virtually all city.

 

Tony: Its great what you wish to accomplish.
One question I have is: How do you propose to MAKE these people go out and look for the truth and facts? In this category, I put my own son in it.
I only found out he was looking for an economical car a month ago. His priorities were: be able to go from Scottsdale to Prescott back and forth, twice, without a refill of gas. He says its about 500 miles. So, I find that the Nissan Altima hybrid is one of the few vehicles to be able to travel the 500 mi, safely, w/o refilling in between. Now, his next questions really floored me. How long will the battery last. Will the hybrid be negotiate to the elevation, IE, have enuff power to go at least 75mph on the trip. Its never come up tween us about differences in autos. I need not go into other aspects of disbelievers any more. They will always have another IF... I feel that a prospective owner of a hybrid will go out and find out about the hybrid, and find out the facts that need to be proven, if they really wanted a hybrid. A disbiever will always be one. In this case of my son, he is making an excuse to NOT buy a hybrid He is building a case to validate buying an LX 450 or MBZ 400 (I am not sure of the titles of the qualifying autos).,,,,--Funny thought on the side: since I am not interested in an upscale auto, I don't know their names, nor do I want to spend the time to find out about them. I am just as bad as he is. I guess we will always have 2 sides, yes? -- and trying to debunk one another, let life go its own way. Sooner or later, the real reasons will raise the issue and the truth will be out. I think the real question is: why do they NOT want to believe? Shouldn't everyone be better off if they knew about as much as one can know? At least be open to either side. What can it hurt? Perhaps thats why we have Hitlers and dictators. But thats for another forum and its not this one.

 

I have had a 08 Touring Classic Silver Metallic Package #5 for about a month now. I've taken two trips to Albuquerque from Las Cruces (about 225 miles) at 75 MPH. This includes several fairly steep hills. The Prius takes it all with no problem. Mileage may drop to less than 20 MPG up the hill, but it doesn't slow down. The average mileage is over 40. The Prius has plenty of power. I love this car.

I have seen EV mode at 75 MPH too. Not for long, but it was there.

 

Szia, Fodor Ur

Szia Fodor,

I'm very glad to learn that there's at least one Prius in Hungary.

When I lived in Budapest, back in 1994 and 1995, that beautiful city was full of Trabants--the anti-Prius. We used to joke that every Trabant driver carried his own personal hole in the ozone layer, because those little East German monstrosities generated so much pollution.

Presumably things have changed since then; I hope many more Magyars are driving Prii.

--Joe

 

I live in Calgary and there are a lot of old-money oil execs here, some of who like to give us grief that we just purchased an '08 (getting it next week!!!).

Last party we were at, one of them started to poke fun and began stating all of the usual blah-blah, untrue-isms which I de-bunked for him.

When that wasn't enough he dismissed the Prius because it wasn't a "performance" vehicle like his mercedes or beamer.

I just told him that I bought the Prius because "I love him so very much".
I "sacrificed performance" for reducing emissions that could contribute to his deteriorating health conditions (...picture an old, fat, wealthy oil exec who was coughing intermittently...).

He ended being doubly uncomfortable with the truth AND with me declaring my man/man love for him around his colleagues...

 

For an 8th grader you do pretty well with your research and logic. The Wikepedia article listing all the Japanese Electronics stuff is right on but your reaction is way off. Don't blame the Japanese, blame the United States for it's inability to be competitive in this industry. As for the Detroit 3, dig a little deeper and you will find that sometimes more than half a cars components are manufactured in a foreign country and that the car is therefore technically considered an import!! I am amazed at how hostile some of the forum participants can be.

 

Re: Prius Myths and their Rebuttals (DIESEL ENGINE)

The original diesel engine could run on just about anything. It was fabulous. Then Detroit and the Petrol Industry got hold of it and made it so it would only accept petrolium based diesel fuel. It really is a fabulous engine and needs to be converted back to its original concept. As it is now, it may be more fuel efficient, but it is a big polluter.

And on another note, all this stuff "dust to dust" cost per mile and related concepts is rather beside the point. I purchased my Prius primarily to reduce my Petrolium usage!! OIL supplies will be depleeted probably within our lifetimes. That is the issue - not cost.

 

New Owner here of a 2008 prius #2. Would like to know any information on keeping the camera on during forward driving?

We must be doing something good because me and my husband dont get under 50mpg. I drive 60 miles a day highway to Tampa (traffic hell) and average 50-55mpg. My husband then uses at night for about 100 miles of local deliveries, and he averages 53-57 (had a night with a 62 average for 89 miles). Yet we want more!

 

Debunk this one for me. I can't find any real info on this:

Prius's are more expensive to repair than normal cars (especially due to accidents). At least from what i see, there are a ton of salvaged Prius's for sale. Are they that easy to total?

 

They have airbags and crumple zones. The airbags work great, but yes, they're expensive to replace. The crumple zone thing means that the passenger cabin is deliberately built stiffer than the engine and trunk compartments. If you hit something at high speed the front (or back) of the car will absorb energy by crumpling up. This means that *you* don't have to absorb that energy because the car does. It also means that it's a pain to try and fix that area, so sometimes folks just sell it. This is not something unique to the Priuses, BMWs do it too.

 

All modern cars have crumple zones... From what I've seen of some Ford F-150 pickups, the entire vehicle is a crumple zone. The Prius also has major components made of aluminum, like the hood, which might cost more. And the Prius has more expensive parts like the coolant thermos bottle close to the front, they gotta put it somewhere. I think the bottle gets cruched in almost any frontal collision.

 

Can't and probably don't want to. It is VERY wide angle. That said, I do think it would be nice if there were a separate 'regular view' camera that would provide a clear 'rear view mirror' image. No heads in the back seat or rear car body parts in the way.