What Really is Holding Back Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Sep 11 2007, 09:52 PM) [snapback]511019[/snapback]</div>

Well, the same can be said of hybrids. But he who is first/best wins. The Prius has become synonymous with hybrid because it is the first/best. The best of the first based on consumer purchase. It still leads in sales. It's all about demand and market share. Toyota's gamble paid off big.

So whoever is the first/best in teh PHEV market also wins. Yes, it's demand that is driving/choking the market. But as the demand for plug-in escalates, someone is going to jump in. And as the demand for EV escalates, someone will jump in.

There is a market for everything. Some people need/demand straight ICE. But there is also a market for those for which a hybrid meets their needs, a plug-in meets their needs, an EV can meet their needs.

After I retire, an EV will meet my needs nicely. I'm hoping by that time there will actually be one on the market. I don't really need a plug-in. I do think eventually there will be no straight hybrids, only plug-in hybrids.

Sure, plenty of the dealer service cash cow will go. But it's gonna go anyway. He who is best/first will be creative enough to find a suitable substitution. Customizing and accessories. Whatever.

It's gonna come eventually and nothing is going to stop it. The only question is how long it takes.

 

Huge Compelling reason: air quality, international conflict and resource depletion. Seems like a no brainer.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jk450 @ Oct 23 2007, 03:49 AM) [snapback]529196[/snapback]</div>

The new prismatic pack in 04 Prius outputs about the same or more than the classic cylinderal pack. Although the number of cells and voltage were lowered, the power delivery was about the same due to increase in discharge amp. I have to check the actual number.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Oct 23 2007, 04:21 PM) [snapback]529422[/snapback]</div>

And a smaller pack is less weight. Less weight is better fuel economy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jk450 @ Oct 23 2007, 02:49 AM) [snapback]529196[/snapback]</div>

Ford's pack is made up of 250 "D" cell size batteries. The Prius's battery is made up of 28 ~2lb bricks. As it was Toyota/Panasonic were already sued by Cobasys/Chevron and had to pay licensing and stick to very strict rules on size / application. There is nothing limiting the total size of the pack, just the size of the individual battery modules that make it up. Like most things though, the more small pieces you have to use to build something the more expensive, more complicated, and potentially less reliable the final product. For an example of a pack with much larger individual NimH batteries, the GM/Cobasys pack used in the Chevy S-10 EV had 22 times more energy storage capacity (343V/85Ah vs 201V/6.5Ah), and yet was still made up of only 26 batteries. Until this year, Cobasys/Chevron has refused to sell these large format batteries to anyone. I believe they are now being used in the GM hybrids, but unavailable to anyone else. For a regular HEV however, these are probably smaller batteries, more like the Prius's.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jk450 @ Oct 23 2007, 02:49 AM) [snapback]529196[/snapback]</div>

The GenII pack is lower voltage (~201V down from ~274V), but the GenII has electronics in the inverter convert the voltage up to ~500V when needed.

In my opinion the only thing holding back PHEVs, or even BEVs is corporate will. Its easy for the car manufacturers to sit back and say the batteries aren't ready, but who's going to put all the money & effort into making the batteries ready for high volume production when there is no obvious high volume demand? The minute the automakers decide they want to do it, everything else will line up. Of course from that time, it will probably take several years to put the first one on the road, as it does any new vehicle.

Its not totally surprising that Toyota wants to try and milk the existing Prius for a while to recover their undoubtedly large R&D costs.

In this sense, I think CARB had it right. We are sitting in a corporate stalemate, and its unlikely anything will change until their is outside influence. If they had stuck to their guns, BEVs, and probably PHEVs would already be common place. Sure the first gen EVs had their issues, but nothing that 10 years of concentrated refining wouldn't have improved dramatically. Meanwhile the few remaining CARB BEVs are still out driving around emissions free, and the fuel cell cars are no closer to commercial viability than they were when CARB pulled the plug on EVs.

Rob

 

for good NiMH large format battereis check nilar.com in Colorado. They work with a swedish company and sell them for hybrids and electrics. They teamed up with hybrid conversions on Poway California and are making PHEV conversions. They will be available to the general public in Jan 2008. At about $8,000
They may also a DIY kit. I want toget that in Jan.