I've read a lot of information on the site concerning tire pressures and have adjusted mine per the recommendations on the site. Does anyone have any information about using Nitrogen rather than air. As I'm sure most, if not all of you are aware, many Toyota dealers offer NitroFill with claims that it will reduce wear on tread, improve fuel economy, smoother ride, etc., etc. Has anyone had any experience with this? If so, what differences have you noted and do you think it is worth it to change over to Nitrogen? It is $10 per tire, so obviously not ridiculously priced, but if no one has seen any advantages or improvements, I could use the cash for my next fill up and six pack. Thanks for all of the useful information and discussion provided on PriusChat.
Please use the "search" function. This topic has been debated several times. Short answer: It's bunk, even when it's offered for free at Costco. Your dealer isn't really telling you everything. Nitrogen in your tires also helps you pick up hot women, it keeps your dog smelling nice, makes your kids do better in school, etc...
Sorry folks, I should have done a search of the subject matter on the site before I posted. Obviously, there is already a lot of discussion regarding my original post, so please disregard it and consider it a "rookie error." Thanks.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CaptainMatt @ Oct 10 2007, 05:17 PM) [snapback]523858[/snapback]</div> Keep in mind that if you just fill up with atmosphere, you are using 78% nitrogen already. Assuming a nitrogen fill means the contents inside the tire are 100% nitrogen, I still don't see how the extra 22% nitrogen is going to help. You'll find that there will be plenty of people here on PriusChat and elsewhere that will tell you nitrogen fills are a complete scam. You'll probably find just as many who will swear by it and offer anecdotal evidence that a reasonable benefit is possible. It will be fun to hear what reasons people use to explain the benefits if nothing else.
I’M not sure what nitrogen in tires will do but in electronics such as waveguides and in LLLTV's it's use to keep the dew point down and moisture out.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CaptainMatt @ Oct 10 2007, 03:28 PM) [snapback]523868[/snapback]</div> Matt, forgive me if I came off rather impolitely. I didn't mean to. Technically, there may be a small benefit using dry nitrogen rather than air with moisture content. But any good tire shop already has an air-dryer on the compressor, so the regular air is already quite dry. Pure nitrogen is a teensy bit lighter than plain old air, but that difference is insignificant.
This nitrogen thing is becoming funny. Originally it was done to reduce or eliminate water vapour inside the tire (as in microwave sites mentioned above). Air with water vapour can vary pressure a lot more than just dry air, due to condensation/evaporation cycling. So if you have a nitrogen system using bottled N2, it's really dry, and works a little better than just air from a compressor (pressure is a little more stable). Now, however, the bandwagon has started moving, and we have compressors with O2 "exclusion" (they reduce the % of O2 in the tank). These still produce "wet air", so you would get no benefit. As this system is less expensive than using bottled N2 in the long run, it will begin to dominate the systems we will find in the real world. Result - no benefit, except more money for the tire shops offering it. If you want "good air" for your tires, check to see if the filling station has an advanced water vapour exclusion component in their compressed air system, that they maintain properly.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rick Auricchio @ Oct 10 2007, 10:07 PM) [snapback]523988[/snapback]</div> Now if they had Hydrogen fill, then we'd be talking! :lol: Rob
I put nitrogen in my tires...and I gained ONE FULL CUP SIZE! I guess, come to think of it (glancing a bit lower now) that might be a selling point for the fellas, too... To the OP...I'd say, GO FOR IT!! ----- Seriously, if the tire shop uses anything that has moisture in it to seat the bead of the tire, the inside of the tire is no longer dry. Pure nitrogen won't do anything to address this. Also, one top-off with non-dried compressed air will introduce significant moisture.
The truth lies somewhere between the extreme positions people take on the nitrogen controversy. Note that not one of the nitrogen naysayer has come out and said, "compared to plain ol' air, nitrogen is bad for your tires." Also note that nobody here on PriusChat will come out and say, "$10 per tire is a bargain, and sooo worth it!" I have nitrogen in my tires . . . and I can attest to the pressure taking much longer to bleed-off to where I need a refill. Heck, I even got to the point where I check the tires less often because I was bleeding off more pressure just doing the neurotic checking. Pssssssssst! I get mine for free at Costco. I'm not going to tell them, "hey, don't bother with that fancy, free, nitrogen crap, I fill mine at Bubba's Corner Gas and Quickie Mart." If I really though it made no difference, I could emulate my neighbor and just use a bicycle pump during a rainstorm.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 11 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]524199[/snapback]</div> Pics? :lol: I noticed that after I started using 100% nitrogen in my tires, my dog has a healthier and shinier coat. So count me as a proponent of nitrogen fills in passenger car tires.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rick Auricchio @ Oct 10 2007, 11:07 PM) [snapback]523988[/snapback]</div> Rick, no apology necessary. I put my 2nd posting in before I saw your response - right after I posted, I saw the threads listing "similar topics" below, which triggered the "duhhh" on my part. As one response stated, it seems the group is pretty split on the advantages, real or perceived. Thanks! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 11 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]524199[/snapback]</div> Well, I can attest that the cup size gain doesn't work for everyone - when my wife took her new Rav4 in for the first oil change, they put nitrogen in her tires (free service offered by the dealer we bought her Rav from - we got my Prius from a different dealer) and I haven't seen any rack change whatsoever, but come to think of it, she has realized about 1.5 mpg better since then (28 mpg). Maybe a coincidence, maybe not. It sounds like one commonality to many responses is that it is important to use dry compressed air. I have an adapter that I use to add air to my tires from my scuba tanks - VERY dry compressed air, so maybe I'll just stick with that. I appreciate all the responses.
Everyone says "bunk" to the Nitrogen benefits, but I have not seen any science behind the bunk claims. The Nitrogen proponents claim two benefits. 1. Nitrogen filled tires retain their pressure longer. 2. The lack of oxygen reduces rubber and metal degredation inside the tire. Mainly, the reason is to reduce the deflation rate of the tires. Automobile owners are generally too lazy to check the tire pressure with any regularity. I see quotes of a 35% reduction in deflation rate. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/10/parker_hannifin.html All the details. http://www.getnitrogen.org/why/index.php To me, having the tires stay full, longer is a real benefit of nitrogen. So, the above links give a somewhat scientific description of the benefits of nitrogen. Can anyone debunk those claims? My 02.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Nov 1 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]533548[/snapback]</div> This has been extensively argued on PriusChat in the past. Here is a sample of some previous discussions: Nitrogen Filled Tires? Nitrogen Instead of Air in Tires Tire Shops that offer Nitrogen for Tires? I put Nitrogen in my tires. Is nitrogen really better? Selling Nitrogen In Tires - Is It All A Lot Of Hot Air? Nitrogen in Prius Tires?
Sometimes I wonder if the nitrogen-in-tires thing is fueled by the aviation world. There are very valid reasons for tires to be filled with nitrogen only there, but they center around avoiding tire explosions. (Plane tires are under higher pressure and get much hotter than car tires.)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Nov 1 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]533548[/snapback]</div> One problem is that for every one person who is capable of explaining the difference in permeability of O2 vs. N2 through rubber, and make a valid argument for the benefits of N2, there are a hundred idiots who have never heard of the ideal gas law making ridiculous claims.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Oct 11 2007, 11:53 AM) [snapback]524201[/snapback]</div> While I'm sure nobody cares, I'll share anyway - I use a bicycle pump (understand that this is a very high-quality floor pump, not the little frame pump I bike with) to keep my tires up to pressure. I own three compressors - and I use the hand pump by choice. Same way that I operate my garage door BY HAND I even most often travel by human power instead of using one of our two capable cars. Crazy! I know! But hey - that's got nothing to do with what we're talking about, so never mind. Why are my breasts getting bigger?
When I bought my new tires at Costco in Greensboro, they filled them up with Nitrogen, said they would hold the pressure better than using just air. Well it was about 89 degrees in Greensboro. Three days later it got down to 24 degrees here in the mountains. When I got in the car the low tire pressure light was sure on, and after a long thread I started in another section on this site, I just went and filled them up with air. Nearest Costco is 2 hours from here. No worries, air rides fine, and lots of it around here! :lol: :lol: I do still like my Hydroedge tires though....
