My new Prius causes a fight at the dealership

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Skraut\";p=\"52526)</div>

Wow! That's bizarre. I can see why you were uncomfortable.

I wonder if the owner, who clearly realized what was going on, also realizes he probably just lost a customer. I also wonder how long the extras guy is going to continue to be employed by that dealership.

Let it pass and enjoy the car.

 

You can still get undercoating/ rustproofing. Keep in mind these are two different processes and materials.

1. Undercoating: Typically Black or brown, very thick goo, doesn't run or flow. Only goes on the bottom or other non-shiny, non-functional metal surfaces of the car. Care must be taken to avoid getting it on the exhaust, and in particular, the oxygen sensors. There is no reason you can't spray this on the metal body surfaces on the bottom of the car. Typically, the undercoating application person is not a mechanic, and is not careful, hence the problem. If you want undercoating, arrange with a (any) dealership to have the Prius Certified Mechanic do the application.

2. Rustproofing: Typically White or Yellowish, thinner than undercoating, runs somewhat as it flow downward. Goes inside the doors, and inside certain hollow portions of the body. This is applied inside the doors (liberally) by spraying up inside the drain holes. Also, inside the unibody by removing plugs. Many times HOLES ARE DRILLED into the body to apply the material, and are then plugged with plugs supplied by the rustproofing material company. I personally frown on drilling holes in a brand new car, especially in rust prone areas of the body. Also, the rustproofing material can clog drain holes in doors and so forth, trapping salt laden water inside the door. (Ironically). The material can also coat sensors, window mechanisms, door latches, and cause problems, both mechanically and electrically. This is likely the Prius Technician's warning. Personally, I feel the only way to properly apply rustproofing is to remove the door panels, mask off the latch, window mechanism, and all electronics, then carefully spray a fine coating inside the door. Wait for the stuff to dry, then check the drain holes to make sure they can still drain properly. Next, do the same for the hatch. Follow the same precautions for the front fenders (remove inner liner to access) and rear quarter panel (remove interior somewhat along with wheel well liner). For the hollow body spaces, use only existing plug holes that can be properly closed up. No drilling.

To do this right might take all day, where the package that the dealership sells only pays the technician about 0.9 hours of labor. If Ohio uses salt at the levels that Michigan does, it might be worth paying several hundred dollars for more labor hours to have it applied properly.

The other strategy is to buy the rustproofing package at the regular price (which comes with a warranty) and make the dealer keep the spraying to a minimum. That way, if it does rust, at least you won't have to pay for it. Keep in mind that many of these require annual inspection to keep the warranty in effect, and may reapply material to the car at those inspections. You may want to get the dealership to sign something stating that any repairs stemming from the application of rustproofing material will be covered for x years or something to that effect.

You may be able to buy the undercoating seperately from the rustproofing.

Good Luck with your decision.

Nate

 

FYI, a lot of salt is used in VT too and no one does undercoating/rustproofing any more.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Skraut\";p=\"52526)</div>

Sounds to me like it either got into a pissing match between who knew more about the car (possible), or the financing guy was mad at the sales guy because they make a nice fat profit margin on extras like undercoating and such (liikely). Almost like a fast food jockey not asking you if you wanna "super-size" that ;P

At any rate, hopefully the manager gives them both hell for having a disagreement like that in front of a customer. You can argue in private after the customer leaves, but it's never good to show that sort of face to your clients...

Dave

 

I live in Finland where rust is a BIG problem. According to Toyota Finland rustproofing is all right and it does not harm Prius.

.

 

Don't bother: the standard waranty in the US covers against rust damage ("Corrosion perforation") for 60 months/unlimited mileage.

Also, I did a search on the cartalk.com web site. Here are two comments by Tom and Ray (aka Click and Clack):

---------------------

December 1995:

http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Arc...ecember/08.html

Dear Tom and Ray:

My wife and I are in the process of purchasing a brand new Mercury Villager. Our question revolves around the issue of undercoating and rustproofing. Do we really need to have our car rustproofed? And if we do, who should we get to do it? Bob

Tom: We've stopped recommending rustproofing, Bob, for two reasons.

Ray: The lesser of the reasons is that manufacturers have improved their rust protection to some degree. They now dip the car parts in some sort of lactose-free, magnesium-zinc, corn syrup-based fruit shortening, which supposedly adds some protection against rusting.

Tom: And their "rust through" corrosion guarantees reflect an increased confidence on their part that they've been at least somewhat successful....either in rustproofing their cars, or crafting warranty language that's vague enough to be weaseled out of easily.

Ray: The more important reason we don't recommend rustproofing is that it's usually done so badly, that it actually makes the car MORE likely to rust, not less likely.

Tom: Let's face it, the guys that do the rustproofing are not recent graduates of the Star Fleet Academy. And they're poking holes in the bottom of your brand new car, and supposedly squirting chemicals in door panels and body panels. And if they do it right, it can help your car last longer. But if they do a sloppy or incomplete job, one of two things can happen. If they don't put the chemicals where they're supposed to go, you can end up with extra holes, which can let moisture into the door and body panels and facilitate rusting. Or, if they put too much of the stuff in, your drain holes can get plugged up, which also accelerates the rusting process.

Ray: Now I'm sure the Continental Rustproofers United in Defense (CRUD) is going to be all over us for expressing such a blanket opinion. And I'm sure that there are some skilled, honest rustproofers out there. The problem is, even WE don't know how to identify the good ones. If I bought a brand new car tomorrow, I wouldn't know who I could trust to rustproof it correctly. And I'm in the automotive business...you know...honor among thieves and all that.

Tom: So unless you personally know and trust someone who rustproofs cars, our advice these days would be to keep the car clean and take your chances.

-----------------
June 1995:

http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Arc...95/June/10.html

Dear Tom and Ray:



I recently purchased a 1995 Dodge Neon. When I was shopping, several salesmen told me that the car did not need rustproofing because it came from the factory already rustproofed. But when I actually bought the car, my salesman told me that I needed to rustproof the car, and the cost was $399. What's going on? Buck

Tom: What's going on is that your salesman is working on commission, Buck. And he's trying to get back some of the money you chiseled off his commission during the negotiation over the price of the car.

Ray: This is a typical sales routine. Once you've agreed to buy the car, then they start trying to add extras like rustproofing, pin stripes, extended warranties, fabric protection, alarm systems; stuff that's added on at the dealership, so the dealer gets 80% of the profit, instead of the usual 10% he gets on the stuff he orders from the factory.

Tom: So do you need rustproofing? In most cases, I'd have to say no. Modern cars do come from the factory with some protection against rust. Is it enough? That depends. How long are you going to keep your car? Do they salt the roads where you live? Can you find somebody who's going to apply the rustproofing correctly?

Ray: That last question is really key. We've been hard pressed to find installers who know what they're doing. And a bad rustproofing job can actually be more harmful than no rustproofing at all, because your drainage holes can get plugged up and hasten the rusting process.

Tom: So if you live in the snow belt, you plan to keep your car forever, AND you personally know a trustworthy person who does rustproofing, then I'd consider it. But if that's not the case, your money would be just as well spent on pin stripes.

 

You need go no further than this thread to witness the potential damage of aftermarket rustproofing:

Squeaks and Smells

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(richard schumacher\";p=\"52580)</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(toyoprius\";p=\"52698)</div>

 

Amen to that.

Next time try my method: say "no", then sit there and smile like an idiot until they go away. It saves a lot of bother.

 

Skraut: Why would you have walked away from the car? Just because two idiots shouted at each other over whether they should try to sell you unnecessary extras? Sure, it may have been uncomfortable for you, but it was not your fault, so nothing to be embarrassed about. And with this car, you'd have had to wait all over again at another dealership.

My take on this is, you encountered an honest salesman, who advised you against buying something useless, and a bad-tempered extras man who got angry about a missed opportunity for profit. But it sounds like everyone else at the dealership was courteous and nice.

When I bought my Prius (at Corwin Toyota, here in Fargo) I got a relatively soft sell on all the extras, and my firm but polite No was accepted with a smile. I think that's as it should be.

 

Here in Canada, a company called Rust Check (www.rustcheck.com) has been in business a long time. If you can find a good franchise dealer (That can be iffy), they seem to do a very good job.

I purchased new a 1984 Ford F-150 and have had it rustchecked yearly, as they recommend. The truck is currently parked in the barn of my hobby farm, but mechanically is quite strong and solid.

Although in sorry need of a paint job (Faded and scratched), look underneath at the frame and the box and the truck looks like it just left the factory.

Is it worth it?? Well, over 20 years the yearly rust proofing has cost me around $2,240. I suppose if you want to keep something forever, figure out the cost of a frame-off restoration and the cost of new sheet metal.

What I would worry about on the Prius is that the techs do drill holes like crazy all over the place, they spray in that fine oil and put a plastic cap over the hole.

What happens if they drill into the battery pack and cause a short/fire? Or spray the oil into the battery compartment, again causing a short/fire? You're SOL then, aren't you?

 

Hmmmm...

"...we could still hear the two gentlemen yelling at each other..."

Two gentlemen? Car salesmen...

Have you seen the new Supreme Court ruling limiting car dealership liability for fraud?

 

Skraut: It still seems to me, from your description of the event, that only the extras salesman was a jerk. Your car salesman gave you good advice (not to buy the extras) and the owner was nice. Anyway, glad to hear you got your car, and after 11 months driving mine, I still think it's the coolest car in the universe.

 

That argument probably had nothing to do with rustproofing or undercoating.

It's a matter of principle and profit. I read a study that showed that such things as teflon paint treatment, undercoating, rustproofing, upholstery stainproofing, sound-deadening, after-market audio enhancements, tow hitches, etc. etc. are far more profitable than selling the car itself. In fact, the salesperson's commission on that car might be $200, but the "spiff" on extras could be much more.

My neighbor bought a new $80k Mercedes, and spent $700 for paint sealant... he's happy, I guess, but it's no more than a wax job.

 

unbelievable at the lack of professionalism shown there. sounds like a high pressure salesman upset over losing a sale.

my sister works at the local ford dealer here and her speciality is aftermarket care.

she does not recommend undercoating either. we dont have much of a winter here so that might be the reason why and your area might be different.