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Global Warming is really starting to run out of gas

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by viking31, Oct 24, 2007.

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  1. viking31

    viking31 Member

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    Read an article in my local paper entitled "Rising seas inch toward Thailand's capital" and you can also find it here. Initial observations and a quick review of the article leads one to believe climate change (caused by man) coupled with rising sea levels (also caused by man) spell impending doom in as little as 15 years for Bangkok. Wow, is New York next? How about Boston? This could be serious! The crux of the article states Bangkok, along with many other major metropolises, will be swamped by "at risk of being swamped as sea levels rise in coming decades" which is attributable by "climate change" (note how alarmists rarely use the phrase "global warming" anymore, it's too inflammatory, "climate change" is the new buzz word, like "lockbox", "tax schemes", etc.).

    But read the article closely. Rising sea levels have virtually nothing to do with Bangkok's sinking. It is the result of a short sited government allowing the massive pumping of water from its underground reserves which is allowing the city to sink at nearly 4 inches per year. Now let's do the complex math. 15 years times 4 inches per year equals a five foot drop in elevation; of which is the level most of the city is purported to be at or below. The article states that at worst the worlds sea level is rising by 1/10 of an inch per year. So (drum roll please!) in 15 years the city will sink five feet solely because of over-pumping of fresh water reserves and 1 and 1/2 inches because of sea level rise (supposedly caused by man...). Hmm, I wonder what the main reason Bangkok is at risk from "rising seas"??? And the same BS is continually fronted on the uneducated masses regarding various islands rapidly succumbing to "rising seas". Geez, I don't know how AGW alarmists even sleep at night.

    But remember, these cities, and don't forget those cutesy, lovable polar bears, can be saved. Just elect a Democrat (this is a biggie folks, any one will do), devise a carbon based tax that only wealthy and hard working nations will bear, buy a silly Terrapass (man, I wish I thought of that!), and everything will be OK.

    And don't even get me started on the CA fires and Dingy Harry...

    Rick
    #4 2006
     
    #1 viking31, Oct 24, 2007
  2. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    Yes, there are a multitude of reasons that our coastal areas continue to recede into our oceans. Most are human caused occurrences due to human mismanagement. Amazing how humans can be responsible such a degree of transformation of our earth, isn't it?
     
    #2 SSimon, Oct 24, 2007
  3. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    Man, am I ever glad I'm not so ignorant.
     
    #3 finman, Oct 24, 2007
  4. viking31

    viking31 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Oct 24 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]529767[/snapback]</div>
    Either your response is full of smart a#$ sarcasm (most of your retorts do seem to have a "wise guy" attitude) or you completely missed the point (the former being my guess).

    What does the sinking of a city or island have anything to do with so called AGW or even natural GW due to rising sea levels of 1/10 of one inch per year despite the media implying such???

    Rick
    #4 2006
     
    #4 viking31, Oct 24, 2007
  5. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    The pace of the Arctic ice melt is accelerating, proving climate change is occurring more rapidly than previously thought, scientists say.

    The development threatens to raise global water levels and submerge low-lying regions around the world, including parts of Florida and already flood-prone Bangladesh.

    This also throws in doubt the survival of numerous species of animals, and of the fragile cultures of northern aboriginal peoples around the world, says a new study. The grim assessment is the conclusion of the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment, a study being published Tuesday at the International Scientific Symposium on Climate Change in Reykjavik, Iceland.

    More than 300 scientists from 15 countries – including Canada – and six aboriginal groups have contributed to the four-year study measuring how fast the Arctic is warming up.

    Arctic ice melt to threaten Florida, scientists say

    For the fourth consecutive year, NSIDC and NASA scientists using satellite data have tracked a stunning reduction in arctic sea ice at the end of the northern summer. The persistence of near-record low extents leads the group to conclude that Arctic sea ice is likely on an accelerating, long-term decline.

    Summer Arctic sea ice falls far below average for fourth year, winter ice sees sharp decline, spring melt starts earlier
     
    #5 zenMachine, Oct 24, 2007
  6. excuseMeButt

    excuseMeButt Member

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    I think what the article is saying: Bangkok is sinking for a reason unrelated to GW but here is an advance look at what we will happen because of it. In other words, here is what we are loking forward to.

    UMMV

    ~buttster
     
    #6 excuseMeButt, Oct 24, 2007
  7. member

    member New Member

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    You could have endless debates if you discuss GW impacts on a city-by-city basis.

    Is the the intent?
     
    #7 member, Oct 24, 2007
  8. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    Perhaps if you weren't looking for your science information in the popular media, you'd have a better picture of the state of GW information and progress.

    The business of newspapers is to sell newspapers. Period.
     
    #8 Rae Vynn, Oct 24, 2007
  9. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Oct 24 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]529767[/snapback]</div>
    What is the optimum temperature for Planet Earth?
     
    #9 dbermanmd, Oct 24, 2007
  10. viking31

    viking31 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Display Name @ Oct 24 2007, 03:00 PM) [snapback]529804[/snapback]</div>
    Average sea levels (whether rise or fall) computed over time is not a city-by-city issue. Whether it be a drop of water dropped into the ocean or the entire amount of fresh water locked up in all the world's ice be melted into the ocean, the result is the same; sea levels would rise on an equally proportional basis around the globe and affect all coastal areas equally.

    The intent of the original post was to illustrate that a major factor the alarmists use to try to verify GW (uh, sorry AGW); is that rising sea levels threaten much of the population of the Earth. Even if sea levels are rising by 1/10 of one inch per year, as admitted by GW alarmists with no verifiable future predictions, it is a non issue for coastal areas.

    Arguments regarding the cause or even debating the existence of GW or AGW quickly turn to Nazis and Democrats vs. Republicans (which is by no means unique to PC). Many people actually believe US political parties either cause GW or can solve GW so the world will be saved from impending doom and gloom (lions and tigers and bears!!).

    Rick
    #4 2006
     
    #10 viking31, Oct 24, 2007
  11. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 24 2007, 02:44 PM) [snapback]529824[/snapback]</div>
    That which is determined by natural cycles.
     
    #11 SSimon, Oct 24, 2007
  12. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Oct 24 2007, 04:03 PM) [snapback]529835[/snapback]</div>
    Huh?

    So there are cooling and warming cycles, and these cycles have existed before mankind was on planet earth? And please define for me what you mean by "natural cycles"?

    but my question is still: What is the optimum temperature for planet earth?
     
    #12 dbermanmd, Oct 24, 2007
  13. Banjoman

    Banjoman Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Oct 24 2007, 10:12 AM) [snapback]529759[/snapback]</div>
    I think the reason that "climate change" has become the alarmist's phrase-of-the-day is that it is more durable. Once it is established that global cooling has started, the alarmists can continue to blame mankind for "climate change". One phrase fits all! :)

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Oct 24 2007, 12:50 PM) [snapback]529829[/snapback]</div>
    So, help me understand why melting ice will cause the sea to rise. In a glass of soda as the ice melts the fluid level goes down not up because ice displaces more water than it contains, no? :huh:
     
    #13 Banjoman, Oct 24, 2007
  14. patrickindallas

    patrickindallas Shire rat

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 24 2007, 02:44 PM) [snapback]529824[/snapback]</div>
    Could you possibly ask a dumber question?

    You don't know the answer, neither to I, neither does whoever you were asking.

    You might as well ask where god lives.

    On topic:

    The OP is relying on an article written by a JOURNALIST. Duh!

    You'd get more accurate facts from the current administration. Double Duh!
     
    #14 patrickindallas, Oct 24, 2007
  15. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(banjoman @ Oct 24 2007, 03:48 PM) [snapback]529908[/snapback]</div>
    No.

    Melting of Floating Ice Will Raise Sea Level
    In addition, when glaciers slide into the ocean and ice on land melts, water is added to the oceans and as a result sea level rises.
     
    #15 IsrAmeriPrius, Oct 24, 2007
  16. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 24 2007, 02:12 PM) [snapback]529837[/snapback]</div>
    It's the RATE of change that's important. The RATE of change is faster than we've observed in the available climate records. In fact, it's considerably faster than anything observed.

    Sea ice melting won't raise sea level by itself. However, the ice reflects light back into space. Once melted, the water will absorb more energy which will raise it's temperature. That will do two things.. first, thermal expansion will raise sea levels (a bit, not 20 feet) and more importantly, degas more CO2 (the solubility of CO2 decreases as the water warms). There are reports that the North Atlantic's ability to sequester CO2 is diminishing fairly rapidly as it gets warmer.

    The volume in the glass stays the same, I believe. Though with thermal expansion it could go up after a time. Once the ice has melted, the water is free to get warmer and warmer.
     
    #16 tripp, Oct 24, 2007
  17. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 24 2007, 03:12 PM) [snapback]529837[/snapback]</div>
    If my answer to you is unclear, then evidently I don't understand the meaning of your question. Optimum in terms of one's comfort level? Optimum in terms of the earth's ability to support healthy, thriving ecosystems and the accompanying biodiversity? Optimum in terms of not having to shovel snow any longer? Define optimum.

    If I'm interpreting your question as I initially did, the optimum temperature range for planet earth would be that of the range that would exist without human influence.
     
    #17 SSimon, Oct 24, 2007
  18. viking31

    viking31 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(banjoman @ Oct 24 2007, 06:48 PM) [snapback]529908[/snapback]</div>
    Yes, most Arctic ice that melts will not make a difference with sea levels since it is already floating. However, I was mainly refering to the huge quantity of ice does remain on land in the Antarctic (of which strangely GW has not affected, hmm).

    Rick
    #4 2006
     
    #18 viking31, Oct 24, 2007
  19. Banjoman

    Banjoman Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Oct 24 2007, 04:04 PM) [snapback]529917[/snapback]</div>
    Oh, I guess I had it wrong. Let me make sure I understand what you're saying. Water doesn't expand when it freezes, it expands when it melts? :(
     
    #19 Banjoman, Oct 24, 2007
  20. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(banjoman @ Oct 24 2007, 09:12 PM) [snapback]530002[/snapback]</div>
    I think what he's saying is that there's no such thing as saltwater rain or snow.
     
    #20 zenMachine, Oct 24, 2007
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