BT Tech Stiffening plate

Oh, if only cars could run on hot air....

 

Jimbo,

I find it odd, how you're so skeptical of this manufacturer and its claims...and yet are willing to trust *them* to give you accurate data.

Data which is supposed to support or condemn *the function of their own product.*

Should we ask the makers of DDT if it's safe or not? How about Agent Orange?

You're joking...right...?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 18 2007, 11:00 PM) [snapback]527617[/snapback]</div>

LOL!... somehow, I don't think he's joking!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboJones @ Oct 11 2007, 06:39 AM) [snapback]523830[/snapback]</div>

Why, I'm happy with what I know, you don't seem to know.
Who is the NRMA, without looking. You put a lot of faith in a group I doubt you could name without looking it up.

I quoted 2 sets of Toyota figures. I trust toyota over you any day, I buy their cars and have for years. Still half an inch difference using your indesputable figures. No human could satify your request for knowledge.

 

Jonesy, you have way too much time on your hands

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboJones @ Oct 18 2007, 07:51 PM) [snapback]527590[/snapback]</div>

Brian of BT Tech has a successful business which has nothing to do with car modifications. He developed the BT Plate out of his love for automobiles and based upon his extensive racing experience. The plate is not for everyone, but he makes it available to those of us who appreciate the difference that it makes.[/b][/quote] Good for him, but this is beside the point.[/b][/quote]
You made it relevant by accusing Brian of profiting by selling a placebo, i.e., a worthless product.

P.S. Pointing out that you have a long documented history as a skeptic of the BT Plate is not a personal attack.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Oct 19 2007, 09:50 AM) [snapback]527713[/snapback]</div>

DITTO.

 

Everything good in this life is not nailed down and secure... I"m sure you know that if you fly!.... or every time you get on the freeway to go earn a living for that matter your taking your life into your own hands as well as everybody else's.

Part of being a true red blooded American and being a "Man" is defined in the ability to have courage.... that means having faith and not being vehemently afraid of taking a chance or a risk.

The ability to have "faith" is indeed a gift.... I used to think everybody had it, but its not true... there is allot of pain and assaults that befall men that cause irreparable damage and some can't believe in or trust anything at all and need serious healing!

Most of the really precious and valuable things in life are first taken in faith and only then we are able to discover later of its benefits.

It sounds like this guy is on a personal agenda to try and "prove" something about the plate, that's really a war within himself.

Quite interesting about the claim to be a long standing skeptic of the plate, yet his posts are very new and recent!

I can only assume he had to change his name to protect the guilty!.......

Are you up for a challenge?....
Jimbo if you want to prove the plate doesn't work, then prove it.... or buy it and try it yourself........otherwise go away and admit your a troll and are paralyzed by your fears.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Oct 20 2007, 01:03 AM) [snapback]527751[/snapback]</div>

I agree with this, I was a skeptic but I bought the plate to see what the fuss was all about. I can't say I have conducted double blind testing on a large enough sample to have a 3% level of accuracy or placed the car on a chassis rig to test the torsional rigidity of the car before and after fitting the BT plate.

Something I have noticed is my car feels a bit more sure footed when I turn one particular corner on my daily commute. This is at an intersection controlled by traffic lights, it is a 45 degree right hander which I take at 60km/h. Because I am turning across other traffic lanes the road undulates but the Prius just goes around the corner with no fuss, prior to the BT plate it seemed to wallow a little.
My 2c

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 19 2007, 10:51 AM) [snapback]527819[/snapback]</div>

That was similar to my introduction to the BT plate. I knew precisely how a particular corner felt because I'd encounter it everyday. With the BT plate installed, the difference in handling around the corner was noticeable.

 

Hi Jimbo,

Allan's test did no side deflection evaluation, or lift deflection evaluation. He hung the car on three points, and noted the forth conrner deflection with and without the plate. Which of course might be somewhat helpful if there was no roof on the Prius. But the Prius does have a roof, and that acts like a stessed skin in the test Allan did. So, the Prius did not show any change in this test.

Allan could not do any lift test, because his equipment was secured by gravity. If he would have lifted the forth corner, the car would have lifted off the jacks, and he would have lost his reference plane.

Allan could not do any side force testings. He did not have anything that could push and pull the car with a thousand pounds, and if he did, it would have toppled the car off the jacks, or skidded the jacks along the floor, again loosing his reference plane.

I am grateful somebody with so much actual practical vehicle structure testing experience came to my rescue, when I pointed this out the first time. And was called a religious dogmatic by the greastest dogmaticians (new word?) I have ever experienced in my life on here.

I am a satisified BT-Tech customer. I find the plate neccassary improvement in the driving enviorment here in Illinois.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Oct 18 2007, 08:28 PM) [snapback]527608[/snapback]</div>

Isn't some smart entrepreneur working on something like that? If successful, it might displace hydrogen as a power source.

Plus, it wouldn't have the distribution challenges that hydrogen has....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Presto @ Oct 18 2007, 11:15 PM) [snapback]527605[/snapback]</div>

I think you're right. But since

1. I don't want to spend 150 bucks for the plate
2. Allan's done a pretty good test already
3. I can instead make a scientific analysis of the BT plate's effect given the parameters of the plate and the Prius chassis, which will be available to everyone to critique

then it's unlikely I will carry out a practical test myself.

Now if you're willing to send me your BT plate, which I will return to you after testing, maybe we can get something going.

 

Lots of time to give but no money......... humm......

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 19 2007, 12:00 AM) [snapback]527617[/snapback]</div>

Why is that odd? The data supplied by BT Tech can either stand up to scientific scrutiny or it can't. It's relatively easy to see if data is fudged. But I'm happy to assume that the BT plate is stiffer than the OEM plate; the point here really is not whether the BT plate is stiffer than OEM, it's whether the Prius chassis can be further stiffened by placing a stiffer plate at the location of interest. This is really the data which BT Tech hasn't provided (i.e. numbers or any engineering analysis - people's opinions aren't quite scientific enough).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 19 2007, 12:00 AM) [snapback]527617[/snapback]</div>

It's interesting how you compare the BT plate to DDT and Agent Orange - were you intending to indicate a negative parallel between the three?

But to answer your question - DDT and Agent Orange can be chemically analyzed: we don't need manufacturer's data for these. The point is that if the BT plate is being marketed as providing the Prius with a stiffer chassis, thereby resulting in better handling, then it should be straightforward for the manufacturer to supply their numerical or testing analysis of the plate's effect. In other words, how did they come up with the idea, and what testing or analysis did they do to come up with the dimensions of the plate, and the location of where it's supposed to go? Things like deflection fo the chassis with OEM plate, compared to chassis defelction with BT plate. When this data is supplied, anyone can then look at it, and verify whether the testing and/or measurements are valid.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Oct 19 2007, 12:00 AM) [snapback]527617[/snapback]</div>

No, are you?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 19 2007, 05:02 AM) [snapback]527657[/snapback]</div>

That's not really saying much.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 19 2007, 05:02 AM) [snapback]527657[/snapback]</div>

Pat, I'm Australian, currently abroad. I've lived in Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia, NSW, and Queensland. I know the NRMA. I even considered insuring with them twice.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 19 2007, 05:02 AM) [snapback]527657[/snapback]</div>

Half an inch difference is well within the range of ground clearance depending on how much fuel is in the tank and how much accessories in the car. Example - between empty and full tank, let's say it's 11.9 gallons (or about 45 liters). That's around 36 kg.

Do you trust Toyota's figure which looks likely to have been a typo? Do you not trust the NRMA at all? Well then, set all that aside and measure your Prius' ground clearance. What is it?

Have you looked at Toyota's part numbers for the Aus Prius' shocks and springs so we can compare it with the US model? Let's look for knowledge rather than trade insults.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 19 2007, 05:20 AM) [snapback]527661[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, isn't life grand? But hey, let's compare number of posts - what do the numbers tell you, sparky?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Oct 19 2007, 09:50 AM) [snapback]527713[/snapback]</div>

Your words, not mine. I'm still undecided, hence the search for data, since the manufacturer is so reticent about supplying data to support his product.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Oct 19 2007, 08:31 PM) [snapback]527983[/snapback]</div>

Donee

Thanks for the technically straightforward and refreshing lack of personal insults in your response.

The points of support in Allan's test are directly on the chassis, and although the roof will provide additional structural support since it's attached to the chassis, the effect of the different plates on chassis stiffness will still be the same. That is, the BT plate is supposed to improve the Prius chassis stiffness in operation, i.e. with the Prius roof on. After all, those people who do note the difference between the plates while driving their car (with the roof on!). The contention is that the car chassis is flexier using the OEM plate, and the car chassis is supposed to be stiffer using the BT plate (in both cases with the roof on). The test should have indicated a difference between the two plates.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Oct 19 2007, 08:31 PM) [snapback]527983[/snapback]</div>

That's correct, but is this because there is no difference to the chassis stiffness using the BT plate?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Oct 19 2007, 08:31 PM) [snapback]527983[/snapback]</div>

A lift test would not be necessary: in hindsight, additional weights placed on the corners of the car will have tested chassis stiffness at higher static loads. Will this have shown any difference between using the two plates? An interesting question.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Oct 19 2007, 08:31 PM) [snapback]527983[/snapback]</div>

I understand the issue - side loads may in fact cause the chassis to twist in the process due to its structural geometry, hence imparting a vertical deflection; however, though when in motion the car is subjected to horizontal loads, the greatest load components that the car experiences are perpendicular to the ground. This is why I don't think it's necessary to apply side loads in this static test, since we're only concerned with testing the difference in stiffness of the chassis in the one axis (vertical). As I've stated above, it will have been good to have had additional weights placed on the corners of the car to see if higher vertical loads show more/less chassis deflection, thereby seeing if there's really a difference betweeen using the two plates.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Oct 19 2007, 08:31 PM) [snapback]527983[/snapback]</div>

I'm seeing what you mean.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Oct 19 2007, 08:31 PM) [snapback]527983[/snapback]</div>

I'm glad you are, and I don't think you are stupid nor an idiot for liking the BT plate. My desire to find a scientific description (and hence verification) of the chassis stiffening issue is mutually exclusive of people's happiness and satisfaction with their BT plate purchase.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Oct 19 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]527751[/snapback]</div>

Windy, please re-read the post: it was IsrAmerPrius who stated I'm a long-standing skeptic of the plate. Don't know why he said that, but the long-standing part ain't true.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Oct 19 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]527751[/snapback]</div>

Tell you what, why don't you send me your BT plate, I'll do my tests, then send it back to you. Game?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Oct 19 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]527751[/snapback]</div>

Thanks windy, I'll do what I want, if it's all the same to you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboJones @ Oct 22 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]528979[/snapback]</div>

With all the other aftermarket chassis bracing out there, you'll be hard-pressed to find the same kind of data you're looking for with the BT plate, and these are fairly major manufacturers. Current owners are happy with the plate's results, and won't be bothered to help you gather data. What is your fixation with this one piece that you can't buy it and do the testing yourself? Oh well, maybe seeing you 'owned' in this thread, as well, will bring some more entertainment, like that fuel economy thread

 

He doesn't own this thread... we're just giving him enough rope to hang himself!....

They all burn out when there's nothing left but hot air.

His theory's, speculation and scientific data will never outdo everyone else's experience.

If what he knew was valuable, maybe someone would pay him enough for his time that a couple of hundred bucks wouldn't mean anything to buy it himself.... but money must be tight.

 

This is a excellent point. I do not remember anyone ever asking Tom's, TRD or any other aftermaket company asking for very specific data concerning their products. Does anyone think that they would even get a answer if someone asked the detailed tech reports that jimbo wants? Why should bt provide such data at their expense? I for one already know that my bt plate works as advertised and do not need to see stress drawings and other tests to prove what I already know.


Frank Boyle



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Presto @ Oct 22 2007, 05:10 PM) [snapback]528992[/snapback]</div>