David, The killing of ONE person solely because of their race is , by definition, genocide. I can' believe you're going to take a stand that the US has no blood on their hands because we didn't slaughter enough native Americans to qualify by your definition. Have you once, ever, admitted to making a gaff? For goodness sake, the US has plenty of blood on it's hands, I pointed out but a few clear examples and you spin, dodge, distract, evade and deny the bald faced truth. And you wonder why no one shows you respect?
I've always said that revealing one's own shortcomings --voluntarily-- is an excellent method of engendering a sense of honesty, openness, and respect. I also believe that deep and lasting friendships are grown in this manner.
Today's Turkey update....they've recalled thier Ambassador to the US. I'm not thinking this usually leads to good things for either side...but then I'm not a foreign policy expert. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071011/ts_nm/turkey_iraq_dc_19
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 11 2007, 07:51 AM) [snapback]524108[/snapback]</div> I agree with your point, but I think you're off by a couple of logs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_hi...igenous_peoples Fortunately america did not keep as precise accounting of the Indian genocide as the Germans did with their hit job on the jews. Otherwise, the Indian might actually have evidence to complain about their plight. Oh no they can't, cause they lost. As Chris Rock says, "You ain't never seen two Indians eating dinner together in a Red Lobster!"
Today's Turkey update....they've recalled thier Ambassador to the US. I'm not thinking this usually leads to good things for either side...but then I'm not a foreign policy expert. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071011/ts_nm/turkey_iraq_dc_19
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Oct 11 2007, 09:13 AM) [snapback]524116[/snapback]</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 11 2007, 11:38 AM) [snapback]524195[/snapback]</div> You are both wrong. gen·o·cide (jěn'ə-sīd') n. The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=g...amp;x=0&y=0 Killing ONE person because of their race, by definition is NOT genocide . . . unless it is part of a "systematic extermination." Racism? YES! The systematic killing of thousands of Native Americans WAS genocide. <_< If one believes it takes the systematic killing of MORE people from any particular group of people, in order to obtain the level of genocide - that, in and of itself, could be considered racism. dbermanmd, in your mind, just how many Native Americans does it take to reach that threshold? <_< * Now, let's see who will be first to admit their gaff.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 11 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]524215[/snapback]</div> Eh, it happens. Recalling an ambassador is not the same as shuttering an embassy. As far as I am aware, their diplomatic corps in DC is still there (and if you ever get a chance to take a walk by their embassy, do. It's very nice). This is just a bit of political show, and ambassadors are recalled more often than you might think. Now, if they close the embassy... that's bad news.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Oct 11 2007, 03:21 PM) [snapback]524224[/snapback]</div> Very true, but judging by the current tone and tenor things could sure escalate....we'll see.
This is an interesting developement in this area. This brings to mind the arguments concerning the potential oil reserves in the Caspian Sea. The only problem is the pipeline must travel over ground in order to bring it into the marketplace. The southern part of Turkey stands to lose potential rights if a breakaway Kurdistan forms and establishes a right to the oil being piped over its land. http://www.infoplease.com/spot/caspianoil1.html a brief description of this scenario is given at the bottom of the link page. Anyway, I would guess this could be the start of something bigger. Especially if the Chinese and the Russians (whom are in friendly terms with Iran) join forces and try to lay claim to those disputed regions anyway?????
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Oct 11 2007, 03:01 PM) [snapback]524220[/snapback]</div> Uh. By that definition you don't even have to kill one person. Just plan a systematic extermination, not necessarily carry it out. So I'd say even if you kill one person, if that is the first kill of the plan, that's genocide. We don't want to set a precedent of refraining from intervention until "enough" deaths have occurred to label it "genocide" and thus take legal action. Seems to me the definition of genocide and hate crime is just a matter of scale. Whether it's one or a few private citizens targeting a person or whether it's a government targeting a population.
regarding the genocide thing.... the original comment was about 'blood on our hands'...it did not say genocide. I let Dr. Berman take the topic on a tangent...I usually am better at sniffing out his thread busting spin and smoke & mirrors tactics but let him get the better of me in the post. In any case, I stand by my point... the US has PLENTY of blood on it's hands...perhaps not by any strict definition of genocide, but certainly we have a lot of ugliness against those different from us when our fear, ignorance and prejudices got the better of us.
YEs, the US does have plenty of blood on it's hands. I wonder what the American Indian would have to say about genocide.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Oct 11 2007, 12:01 PM) [snapback]524220[/snapback]</div> ...and who will admit to misspelling gaffe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Oct 11 2007, 03:01 PM) [snapback]524220[/snapback]</div> I'll admit to the gaff(e) in definition, but will try to explain my thought process...I was looking at intent. Perhaps a better definition of what I'm thinking about is a hate crime, but my intent was the same though admittedly doesn't fit the strict definition. My "real" mistake, as stated above, was taking the bait and going after the genocide issue which is not what we were talking about specifically.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Kelly @ Oct 11 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]524376[/snapback]</div> OK . . . now let's see who is going to admit to a gaffe (or gaff) of misidentifying a correct spelling. :lol: gaff3 PRONUNCIATION: gf NOUN: Variant of gaffe. http://www.bartleby.com/61/59/G0005900.html
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 11 2007, 07:43 PM) [snapback]524379[/snapback]</div> No harm. Some people, on the other hand, have a different take on the definition of genocide . . . "EXPEL". :huh: Hashemi Rafsanjani: Hitler Wanted to Expel Jews Because 'They Were a Pain in the Neck' http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301296,00.html
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Kelly @ 2007 10 11 19:34) [snapback]524376[/snapback]</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ 2007 10 11 19:49) [snapback]524383[/snapback]</div> ur a gf, spe. I call foul (fowl?) on using an American dictionary as an authority on English spelling and usage. A gaff is either a stick with a hook for landing large fish, or slang for divulging a secret, as in 'blow the gaff.' A gaffe is a blunder, as in starting a war that divides the Middle East along racial lines.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Oct 11 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]524436[/snapback]</div> Um, excuse me . . . I ain't nobody's girl friend! <_< :lol: Last time I looked, both efusco and I were still living in America, so excuuuuuse me for using the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language to prove our spelling correct. The biggest gaff is Jack Kelly's attempt to say we are the ones who got the spelling wrong. Last time I looked, he too is American. Now of course, if efusco wishes to admit to leaving an 'e' off the word by accident, that's his business. Main Entry: blunder Part of Speech: noun Definition: mistake Synonyms: blooper*, boner*, boo-boo*, bungle, dumb move*, dumb trick, error, fault, faux pas, flub*, flub-up*, fluff*, gaff, gaffe, goof*, howler*, impropriety, inaccuracy, indiscretion, lapse, muff*, oversight, slip, slip-up, solecism, trip* http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=ga...p;x=26&y=16
I guess I've spent way too much time working backstage at theaters. I always thought gaff (with no 'e') was this stuff:
I agree with Hyo, a gaff is for landing big fish. We use them when ice fishing to bring the big ones up through the hole. As for Turkey, here is an interesting post from an officer in Bagdad posting on DEAwatch. (though take it with a grain of salt. "Dear DEA Watch: I know that you all back there are hearing the news about Turkey and Armenia but things here are worse than what you hear. One of the Israeli liaison officers here who came back just last week told us today that we have Jews in our Congress who are working with his country to kill our relationship with Turkey so that we will be forced to transfer all of our assets and bases in Turkey to Egypt or Saudi Arabia, and possibly throw some of that business to Israel. That is what all this is about. My friend told me that it is in Israel's interest for al-Queda to get re-fired up against us if we are forced to re-occupy the Muslim holy land in Saudi Arabia. You all will recall that it was because we still had some military bases in Saudi Arabia that got Osama mad at us before 9/11. So I don't have to tell you all that such a move back into Saudi Arabia would be disastrous. It would inflame many Muslims and all but declare a war across the entire Middle East which is what the crazy Israeli-Americans in our government and in Israel want. Someone back there needs to tell the Israelis to stop provoking war. There are some Jews who anxiously want Armageddon, but those of us here who are living through Hell everyday don't want to see Hell get worse. Say your prayers."
