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Is vintage car collecting a good investment?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by FloridaWen, Sep 28, 2007.

  1. FloridaWen

    FloridaWen New Member

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    http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Inves....aspx?GT1=10421

    A 4-wheeled investment vehicle
    Building a garage -- and a portfolio -- full of mint-condition cars is a lovely pastime, but can you make money doing it?

    By SmartMoney
    Dick Messer's passion for automobiles was often misunderstood, especially at home.

    When, back in 1978, he bought a Siata 208S Spider for $15,000, for example, his father didn't talk to him for five years.

    "At dinner, he would literally turn to my sister and say, 'Tell Richard to pass me the salt,'" Messer says. "You can't believe the friction I got from my family for spending so much on a car."

    Today, that car is worth $700,000. Together with the 20 or so other cars in Messer's garage, which he estimates have cost him roughly $100,000 to purchase over the years, his collection is worth around $2 million.

    "My sister is jealous now," he says. "She's looking at my car collection and saying, 'There's your retirement -- you've got nothing to worry about.'"

    The collection isn't for sale, but Messer's expertise -- he is now the director of the Petersen Automotive Museum in Los Angeles -- is sought by car enthusiasts and investors alike. "I get a lot of calls from wealth managers who've started to add collector vehicles to the portfolios of their wealthy clients," Messer says.

    That's not a surprise, given the jump in value collectible cars have seen over the past few years. Muscle cars -- high-performance American cars from the late 1960s and early 1970s -- for example, have surged in popularity thanks to the growing number of baby boomers who have always dreamed of driving the cars once owned by their fathers and now have the money to buy them.

    "Just a couple of years ago, you could buy a 1969 Z-28 Camaro in really nice condition for $40,000; now that same car is probably $60,000," says John DiPietro, the road-test editor for auto Web site Edmunds.com.

    At this year's Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance car show, held annually on the Monterey Peninsula of California, some rare collectibles were auctioned off at nearly double the prices they fetched just several years ago. Auction house Christie's sold a 1936 Auburn Speedster for $423,500, which two years ago had been sold for $250,000.

    "That's a big jump," says Rupert Banner, the head of the international car department for the Christie's. "The market today is certainly seeing some spectacular growth."

    Earlier this year, auction house RM Auctions sold a 1962 Ferrari Testa Rossa raced by Phil Hill at Le Mans that year for $9.3 million. The seller had purchased the car five years earlier for $6.5 million.

    To be sure, car collecting can be a fun hobby if you have a passion for vintage wheels, but you shouldn't by any means consider it part of your retirement-saving strategy or even bank on making a profit. That said, assembling the right car portfolio -- collectible cars made at least 25 years ago in limited production and good condition -- could add to your enjoyment and maybe even your net worth. Here's what you need to know.

    Market research
    As with investing, make sure you know what you're buying. Start your research with a local car club, then attend a car show or auction and talk to the owners and industry insiders.

    "Attending an auction is like going to school," says Terry Lobzun, a spokesman for RM Auctions. Learn as much about the car you're interested in, and don't forget to ask about maintenance and insurance.
     
    #1 FloridaWen, Sep 28, 2007
  2. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    With a time machine and a wad of cash, you could do pretty well. I'd love to go back and buy that Jaguar my Uncle turned down, or the $19,000 house I used to live in that's now worth millions. I'd say 'investment vehicles' are for the money you can afford to play with, not your retirement plan.
     
    #2 hyo silver, Sep 29, 2007
  3. wbuttler

    wbuttler New Member

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    I've restored three "antique" vehicles and
    learned that the trick is to buy a vehicle already
    completely restored---at the lowest possible
    pricing.....unless you sell the vehicle you restore
    at the height of a popularity curve you will probably only
    recover your initial investment plus a small amount
    --but not recover the investment in your time.
    labor, and other expenses. You have to do it cause
    you enjoy the process ---as an investment---
    my opinion is that uranium wells are a better investment
    than vehicle restoration and sale for profit.

    Froley
     
    #3 wbuttler, Sep 29, 2007
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Is vintage car collecting a good investment? Sure. I have a 1994 Ford Aerostar I'll sell you for $50,000. :D

    Tom
     
    #4 qbee42, Sep 29, 2007
  5. FloridaWen

    FloridaWen New Member

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    :angry: Back in 1971 (H.S.Graduation) I bought me a two year old, 1969 Plymouth RoadRunner, metallic silver, 383 cu. in., 4-speed, hi-back buckets, Hurst shifter, Posi-traction tires, 3.91 rear axle gear ratio with less than 16,000 miles for $2,500............. Sold it two years later for $1,500 !!

    I think today it may be worth upward of $50K ?? :unsure:

    OH, those were the days............. the late 60's early 70's........ GM, Chrysler, Ford, even AMC !!
    The days when a kid in High School could actually afford a decent, used car that he could afford to buy and afford to keep running........ :D

    [attachmentid=11737]
     

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    #5 FloridaWen, Sep 29, 2007
  6. koa

    koa Active Member

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    I remember in 1967 walking into the Ford dealer and on the showroom floor was a street version Ford GT 40 for $10,000 and Cobra's for $5000. There was a guy who was selling his daily driver in my neighborhood for less than $5000. It was a 300SL Gullwing.
     
    #6 koa, Sep 29, 2007
  7. Spoid

    Spoid New Member

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    I would say now is a bad time to get into car collecting. Prices have risen dramatically over the past few years, which, to me, means they are over priced. I believe they will be like the stock market, real estate market, and commodities markets - cyclical.
     
    #7 Spoid, Sep 29, 2007
  8. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    If anyone is looking for a 1968 Toyota Crown with a genuine 20,000 miles on it I have one for sale at $6000 no offers. It's on historic vehicle registration and goes very well.
     
    #8 patsparks, Sep 29, 2007
  9. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    There are plenty of things that have increased exponentially in price over the last quarter of a century. There are also plenty of things that have not. The trick is to know what things will increase in the future; not which things have increased in the past. This guy guessed right and has a nice nest egg. Plenty of people have guessed wrong and been wiped out. It's called gambling.
     
    #9 daniel, Sep 30, 2007
  10. bigboy

    bigboy New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Sep 29 2007, 11:48 AM) [snapback]519023[/snapback]</div>
    You might want to look into vintage guitars as well. Seriously, the room it takes to maintain and build a collection is minimal... and the cost of entry can be a lot lot less...plus you can fit a bunch of them into your Prius...(with the seat down)...
     
    #10 bigboy, Sep 30, 2007
  11. pogo

    pogo New Member

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    No. They're a hobby -- as are almost all collectibles.
     
    #11 pogo, Sep 30, 2007
  12. viking31

    viking31 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FloridaWen @ Sep 29 2007, 03:52 PM) [snapback]519145[/snapback]</div>
    Even if it was worth $50K or so the "time/value/money" equation comes into play. The money could have been invested into real estate, the stock market, or other areas and be worth significantly more now than with what you started with in 1969. Plus, think of the constant hassle of maintaining a 1969 era car. It probably would not be your daily driver so condensate water in the fuel, stale fuel, condensate water in the brakes, all the seals will go bad every so often, the plastics and such were of poor quality, cost of storing the vehicle inside garage, rust on the body, etc. No air bags, probably not much in crumple zones, etc...

    Ask anyone with a vintage car and you will find that unlike with modern cars it is always a constant battle to keep all the systems operating. When you think about it, "they just don't build 'em like they used to", well, that's true; they build 'em much better today!

    Now with all the logic aside, would I like a car (fully restored!) like your former 69 Plymouth in my garage now, OF COURSE!!

    Rick
    #4 2006
     
    #12 viking31, Oct 1, 2007
  13. FloridaWen

    FloridaWen New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Oct 1 2007, 04:00 PM) [snapback]519943[/snapback]</div>
    This is true !! :D
    I used to "restore" vehicles and until you really do one you simply cannot believe how much time, work, energy, and so many "can-of-worms" you open up during every step of the restore. And NOW, trying to get "Genuine Factory Parts" (NOS- New Old Stock) is much different than back in the 70's and 80's. NOW you find nothing but JUNK Taiwan knock offs, flimsy sheet metal that doesn't fit right, etc. and just as you mentioned, unless you have an Air Conditioned storage facility and keep adding gas additives to prevent gumming up, etc. the vehicle will slowly disintegrate.......... :angry:
     
    #13 FloridaWen, Oct 1, 2007
  14. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    As a teenager, I really enjoyed fixing up cars. Doing things myself, figuring out the problem, and the pride of a job well done felt great. After about eight months working in a repair shop, I gained a new appreciation for bicycles, and was inspired to go to university. Now I really enjoy not having to fix cars. No more 'classics' for me. :)
     
    #14 hyo silver, Oct 1, 2007
  15. FloridaWen

    FloridaWen New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Oct 1 2007, 04:52 PM) [snapback]519965[/snapback]</div>
    :unsure: At 55 years old, now I get a sore back that lasts two days, just changing oil & filter on our new Prius.... include rotating the tires, my sore back last three days :lol: !!

    Vehicle restoration for ME now is just a thing of the past.......... :(
     
    #15 FloridaWen, Oct 1, 2007
  16. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    As a matter of fact, Wheel Estate is a good investment.! ;)

    I have been doing it since 1988, remember in the 80's when you could buy a 340 duster for $600?
    Now that same car is like 4k in rough shape, restored can go from 9-30k

    My father purchased a 1951 Bently Mark 4, for $600 from a police auction, he dumped 10K into it and sold it for 50k...... :)

    A 1962 Olds starfire coupe goes for 8-80k

    My mustang though was not sought after in 72, now the book goes from 17- ? k. depending on what the car has on it..

    A 1970 shelby ? 100-150k

    Ever watch the barret jackson auction? http://www.barrett-jackson.com/
    It will make you sick to see what people are willing to pay for a car.. The 440 cuda as an example fully restored, 200k.. :blink:

    So yes they can be a good investment, just do the research and make sure you can still get parts for what you buy.

    I will not buy past 1960, as parts get hard to come by and when found you pay through the nose for them..

    Just do your research and see whats becoming hot, right now it seems to be pick-up trucks from the 50s-the 70s.
     
    #16 hycamguy07, Oct 2, 2007
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