Toyota has joined the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers to oppose 35mpg fuel standards. Really. They have a car that get 50mpg, but are fighting to get a 35mpg cap? Are they living up to the Green image they are selling to us? I'd love to hear some thoughts about this. More about this here: http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/dlovaas/..._is_toyota.html Full Disclosure: I work for NRDC, who hosts the blog linked above.
I'm sure the reasons are financial/economic. I don't that means they're not 'green', but I think most of us agree we'd really like to see them take the lead in making assertive steps to reach the higher standards.
There are a couple initial thoughts that pop into my head. 1) No company will ever "green" themselves into bankruptcy. 2) The problem with doing one good deed is that every other deed you ever commit is used to beat you. With that said, my company promotes green buildings and we help building owners design, build, commission, and manage green buildings as well as retrofit existing buildings to meet green standards (LEED-NC and LEED-EB, respectively). Try as we might to sway someone to go totally green, we MUST always keep in mind that our customer is in business to make money and provide dividends to the shareholders. Oh sure, they will dedicate certain resources, but usually there's a long-term cost savings associated to it which eventually - you guessed it - provides dividends to shareholders. So to accuse Toyota of not being an environmentally conscious company based on this one stance may be jumping to conclusions. And disregarding their use of bioplastic in their cars including the Prius. Now, about being green. Oh sure I drive a Prius, but my wife drives a Buick. Just how green am I in that I allow her to not drive a hybrid? I have low-flow showers and toilets but waste water washing my car. Just how green am I?
The problem is the American public does not want the standards. If they did, they'd be buying the 40 MPG cars and everybody would be in a mad dash to create more. The American public likes big cars and doesn't care about gas mileage. They like being able to race to the next red light to get there first. The American public has a love affair with their cars and while it does, the auto manufacturers are happy to create the supply. Toyota has done real well with the Prius and I'm excited about the future generations of it. But they are a for profit company so they want to make what the public will buy, and in general, that is not a 35 MPG car.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Spoid @ Sep 21 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]515830[/snapback]</div> I disagree that they don't want those standards. If you told me I could buy a Tundra that got 40mpg or one that got 20mpg for a comparable price, I'd take the first one, no question. In fact I challenge you to walk out on the street and find anyone who says they would rather cars NOT get more MPG. Wouldn't you agree that 35mpg by 2020 is reasonable considering the current trend of technological advancement? That is nearly 13 years to figure out how to fit a hybrid engine in a Tundra. They've got one in their new Highlander. I don't think the argument is that Americans should all drive little cars, I think it's that the technology exists or is in development to make all cars meet the 35mpg standard.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apollo.gonzales @ Sep 21 2007, 11:48 AM) [snapback]515844[/snapback]</div> I think that "for a comparable price" bit is the rub.
I think Toyota opposes the standard because it wants to get into the truck and large SUV market. You don't see Honda opposing it because Honda is THE green automaker. Honda have been resisting to make V8 engines. It is not they are not capable of, but they refuse to because V8 does not comply with their objective of being a green company. Honda has been willing to let Acura suffer because of that (lack of V8). Toyota is a market-driven company (nothing wrong with that!). Honda is an engineering-driven company (most of their top executives have background in Honda racing). Honda's objectives are "safety" and "green".
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apollo.gonzales @ Sep 21 2007, 11:48 AM) [snapback]515844[/snapback]</div> Yes, I think it's reasonable. I'm not sure why it's not naturally progressed there already, but rather stagnated for decades. I don't understand the economic arguments debating the feasibility of this increase. Maybe this is overly simplistic but if all auto makers are required to increase the efficiency of their line equally, it's a level field. All increased costs would be supported by the purchaser of all brands. The increase in cost would probably be offset by the fuel savings that the purchaser would recognize over time. Over the life of my Prius ownership, I will save over $7,000 in fuel costs and that's if prices don't continue to increase. I do, however, understand the we'd have to start keeping our cars for a longer duration to recognize the fuel savings.......a concept a lot of people can't typically seem to wrap their brain around. Also, if we use less fuel in our cars, wouldn't that drive down the price of oil and decrease costs of other retail items that we purchase thereby affording us additional savings and further justify the increased cost of our vehicle? Or is this overly simplistic as well?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ceric @ Sep 21 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]515860[/snapback]</div> There are those that say that each Prius sold allows Toyota to sell more Tundras and Sequoias. Thanks to how CAFE works, that isn't exactly true, though. Ceric has it right, though. Toyota does want to sell more trucks and SUVs. So it builds a new Tundra that essentially has gearing meant for the drag strip, among its other features. The best reason that small cars don't sell that well here is that we either think we don't fit into them, or we really do not fit into them. And, as a nation, we've become larger...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Spoid @ Sep 21 2007, 11:31 AM) [snapback]515830[/snapback]</div> Saw a news blurb the other day saying hybrid sales were up 45% this year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Sep 21 2007, 11:25 AM) [snapback]515862[/snapback]</div> In the short term that may be true, but lower fuel costs will allow more people to get into the market, which will in turn increase demand. So in the end it's pretty much a wash. However, owning a more efficient car will still save you loads of money and as production of oil tails off the supply situation will get tighter and tighter, which means you'll save arse loads of money. I'm starting to wonder if this legislation is really going to be necessary. Oil production hasn't increased at all. I don't see us offsetting the declines with new production so I think oil prices may starting going up even faster. The net result will be smaller, more efficient cars. Powerful, fun to drive cars will be less common. Diesel will be favoured over petrol. It seems pretty likely that there will be a very different view of fuel efficiency in 13 years.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Sep 21 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]515900[/snapback]</div> I agree with most of what you said, but as an owner of a Triumph Spitfire, must disagree with your implication that a car must be powerful to be fun to drive. You can have a wildly impractical and unreliable car that is both fun to toss around and completely gutless B)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jweale @ Sep 21 2007, 01:26 PM) [snapback]515925[/snapback]</div> I agree with what you're saying, but I think people want power anyway. After driving my pickup, zipping around in the Prius is just fun. It corners better, easy to get into parking spots, and has a jack for my iPod. But many people will want more horsepower that is unneeded.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Spoid @ Sep 21 2007, 11:31 AM) [snapback]515830[/snapback]</div> And the Germans don't? IIRC they have the autobahn with no speed limit, Porsche, Audi and a few others that are powerful gas guzzling cars are the norm there as well. Dont group "all" Americans into this, because it isnt true. If I wanted a fast powerful car, I would build one and take it to the track. Having an expensive rocket is a waste since you cant drive it legally to its design. I am quite happy driving either the Prius or my Crown Vic. Neither of which is a race car, in fact the Vic isnt much quicker than the Prius.
