2001 Prius transmission failure

I think it's called transaxle because it's a combined "transmission"
and "axle" a la the traditional "pumpkin" in rear-wheel-drive cars.
No driveshaft in between, though, but there *is* a large ring gear
and differential spider between where the wheel half-shafts come into
the backside protrusion of the case.
.
In the case of the Prius, of course, the electric motors are integral
to what the "transmission" is so it's all one big combined [and
heavy!] unit.
.
Oh, another advantage is that the same lubricant can reach both the
transmission and differential parts, eliminating the need for separate
gear oil, and tranny fluid tends to be less viscous so you get a
little less running friction in the diff.
.
_H*

 

a transaxle is the transmission, differential and drive axle as one working unit. typically found in front engine/front wheel drive vehicles. this is not a hybrid-specific term, our 1990 lexus es250 has an automatic transaxle.

 

Check out pricing on transmission repairs for other cars and $2900 is cheap. The trans in my F350 is $4500 to rebuild. $3200 for the AODE in my 01 Vic. When you consider the Unit in the Prius is totally different than all other cars save few that have CVT, the price they are giving you is CHEAP. Ask youself this, can you buy another car for that price?

Looking through the posts here, someone mentioned voltages and current. Higher voltage uses less current to provide the same power. Less current used = less heat. Toyota may have known about this becoming an issue as the miles go up and redesigned the units accordingly. Ex. my table saw is dual voltage, at 120V it uses 20 amps, at 240 it uses 15. Same wiring, just a matter of switching jumpers, and it does make a difference when rip sawing using higher voltage.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Sep 10 2007, 01:55 PM) [snapback]510172[/snapback]</div>

So, if the motor has a 100K warranty, and the transmission and motor are "one big [heavy] unit", then a "transmission failure" should be honored by 100k warranty.

Perhaps the motor does not have a 100K warranty? Is it only the inverter and converter?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pkamm @ Sep 10 2007, 01:27 PM) [snapback]510123[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for the comment - I mentioned statistics only because there is a tendency on the forums for folks to see three individual failures of a part and call that a pattern failure.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pkamm @ Sep 10 2007, 01:27 PM) [snapback]510123[/snapback]</div>

Hybrid or not, a transmission is a component that applies variable drive ratios to the output from the engine, and a transaxle is simply a transmission that connects directly to the vehicle's axles - any conventional front-wheel-drive or rear-engined vehicle has a transaxle.

No part of the ENGINE is considered part of a transmission. I'm assuming that you meant that when you said "motor." If not, there are electric motors inside the transaxle. Hybrids have taught us, at last, not to interchange the terms "engine" and "motor."

Unless, of course, we're speaking Spanish. In that language, "motor" is used to define an engine, as well. Can't win them all.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jk450 @ Sep 10 2007, 05:31 PM) [snapback]510288[/snapback]</div>

No, when I used motor I meant motor as the term applies to the Prius. The point I am trying to get at is where exactly is the distinction between the motor (not the combustion engine) in a Prius and what is referred to as the "transmission"? I have interpreted some posts here as indicating that in the Prius the transmission and motor are one unit.

The reason I care is that this distinction may be important to determining whether or not a "transmission" failure is covered by warranty over 60K. (See title of thread.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pkamm @ Sep 10 2007, 07:04 PM) [snapback]510301[/snapback]</div>

From the Toyota Prius Warranty Info Book:
100k/96 months: HV Battery, HV ECU, HV Batt ECU, Inverter/Converter
60k/60 months: Engine/Transaxle/FWD System

 

Hi ACD,

Your comment about voltage does not apply. If you split the windings in half and run them with half the voltage, you get twice the current into the motor, but still the same current through each winding. The Gen II battery is doubed to a voltage which is less than twice the Gen 1 battery, however. But the Gen I battery has less internal resistance, so the current in each winding is probably similar between the two motors.

Hi Hobbit,

From what I remember in those papers the Prius Gen I rotor had a buried magnet too. Its just that the dual Vee orientation resulted in a thicker web of metal holding lighter magnets. This allowed for higher RPM ratings. But, that was a side benefit. The real benefit was the extra dynamical magnetic field that resulted from the orientation, even though the static field was less.

But, yes, the resistance should be self balancing as metals have negative temperature coefficient of resistance. But a positive coefficient of thermal expansion. So this balancing act may actually cause variable forces in the wind. Resulting micro-dents could begin a process that results in a large excursion between windings resistance.

Hi All,

On another Prius Gen I PC transmission thread it was mentioned that some of the Gen I transmission bearings are sleeve bearings, that were replaced with ball bearings in the Gen II. I think its the bearings in the PSD - does anybody know which for sure? If the PSD fails, well, there is no hybrid system coverage as I see it. And this does appear to be a good reason to change transmission fluid every 30 K miles as Bob Wilson recommends. This would then be a true risk of the early adopter. Which is unavoidable. And its why Toyota gave the early adopters free road-side assistance. Still, as far as the costs are concerned, this is very much in-line with present cars.

If you get a new battery, and some support for the rebuilt transmission out of Toyota, and have not been driving around in all the winter salt, what is to say the car cannot go another 70 to 90 K miles. And that would be the end of the typical car lifetime then (140 to 180 K miles). Does not mean that you have to drive those miles, just that the car will go those miles, and should have some resale value.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pkamm @ Sep 10 2007, 07:04 PM) [snapback]510301[/snapback]</div>

Both electric motors - MG1 and MG2 - are part of the transaxle - which, as I had mentioned, is a type of transmission. So yes the motors are part of the Prius transmission.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Sep 10 2007, 09:08 PM) [snapback]510360[/snapback]</div>

Planetary gearsets are about as bulletproof a component as you are likely to see in any vehicle. If you know of a transaxle failure caused by a faulty PSD, I'd like to hear about it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jk450 @ Sep 11 2007, 02:52 AM) [snapback]510492[/snapback]</div>

Well, the latest on my transmission failure is that they are now saying that the transaxle must be replaced. The quote is for almost $5K for putting in a rebuilt transaxle. Does that sound right to folks here?

I called that service manager at the dealer and asked for the DTCs (as some on other websites have advised) and a bit on how they came to the diagnosis. So far, he's said the diagnosis was based on where the hum was coming from. This is interesting, since hum only occurred while the car was in motion.

I'm waiting for a callback now, be he wasn't sure they kept the printout of codes...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jk450 @ Sep 11 2007, 02:52 AM) [snapback]510492[/snapback]</div>

Well, the latest on my transmission failure is that they are now saying that the transaxle must be replaced. The quote is for almost $5K for putting in a rebuilt transaxle. Does that sound right to folks here?

I called that service manager at the dealer and asked for the DTCs (as some on other websites have advised) and a bit on how they came to the diagnosis. So far, he's said the diagnosis was based on where the hum was coming from. This is interesting, since hum only occurred while the car was in motion.

I'm waiting for a callback now, be he wasn't sure they kept the printout of codes...

 

too pricey. you can get a brand new trans for about $3500 from toyota. shouldn't take more than 5-6 hours labor. DH has never seen or heard of a rebuilt hybrid transaxle. but there might be somewhere.

BUT

Wth is with their diagnosis? where the hum was coming from? if they don't have documented codes they don't need to replace that trans till they do. there MAY be a couple situations where you don't have codes beforehand, but your car wouldn't still be running.

you've got a couple choices... pay to have it replaced now, provided the dealer proves their diagnosis OR drive it till it dies, then replace it. there is the off chance the HV battery would be affected, but that's highly unlikely.

this all started with a humming noise? if it's drivable, we personally would go with option the latter.

 

too pricey. you can get a brand new trans for about $3500 from toyota. shouldn't take more than 5-6 hours labor. DH has never seen or heard of a rebuilt hybrid transaxle. but there might be somewhere.

BUT

Wth is with their diagnosis? where the hum was coming from? if they don't have documented codes they don't need to replace that trans till they do. there MAY be a couple situations where you don't have codes beforehand, but your car wouldn't still be running.

you've got a couple choices... pay to have it replaced now, provided the dealer proves their diagnosis OR drive it till it dies, then replace it. there is the off chance the HV battery would be affected, but that's highly unlikely.

this all started with a humming noise? if it's drivable, we personally would go with option the latter.

 

OK, just got a quick call back. The dealer said the error code was P3009 Leak Detected.

I called a dealer in a neighboring city for a quote on replacing the transaxle. The quote was about $100.00 more, but he said it was a new transaxle, not rebuilt. He said they don't recommend using rebuilt transaxle.

This is starting to sound like a shell game.

 

OK, just got a quick call back. The dealer said the error code was P3009 Leak Detected.

I called a dealer in a neighboring city for a quote on replacing the transaxle. The quote was about $100.00 more, but he said it was a new transaxle, not rebuilt. He said they don't recommend using rebuilt transaxle.

This is starting to sound like a shell game.

 

i hope they ruled all the other things out first:

DTC P3009 Leak Detected
CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
Electric leak from the high-voltage system, which may seriously harm the human body, is detected by this
code.
DTC No. DTC Detecting Condition Trouble Area
P3009
Electric leak from high-voltage system
(Insulating resistance of power cable is 100 kW or less.)

Power cable

HV transaxle

Converter & inverter assembly

Battery cover

System main relay

Battery temperature sensor

Battery ECU

Battery carrier catch bracket

Main battery cable

Service plug assembly

HV battery assembly

 

i hope they ruled all the other things out first:

DTC P3009 Leak Detected
CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
Electric leak from the high-voltage system, which may seriously harm the human body, is detected by this
code.
DTC No. DTC Detecting Condition Trouble Area
P3009
Electric leak from high-voltage system
(Insulating resistance of power cable is 100 kW or less.)

Power cable

HV transaxle

Converter & inverter assembly

Battery cover

System main relay

Battery temperature sensor

Battery ECU

Battery carrier catch bracket

Main battery cable

Service plug assembly

HV battery assembly

 

Is it worth paying that much to repair an old car? Do you think you'll be better off using the $5k to purchase a 2004+ used Prius instead? Perhaps the transaxle will last longer in the newer Prii?

 

Is it worth paying that much to repair an old car? Do you think you'll be better off using the $5k to purchase a 2004+ used Prius instead? Perhaps the transaxle will last longer in the newer Prii?