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auto-charge procedure?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by member, Aug 28, 2007.

  1. member

    member New Member

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    Someone had mentioned a sequence of gas pedal depressing, power-on, maybe odometer button pressing, that would instruct the vehicle to charge until "full". I cannot find any of that discussion no matter how hard I look on Priuschat or elsewhere. Can someone point me to that or simply repost? Much appreciated!
     
    #1 member, Aug 28, 2007
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    It's called force charging. Put the car in D, push the brake firmly and press the accelerator to the floor and keep it there until it won't charge any more.

    Please realize that there are really not very many good reasons to do this...it's very inefficient energy wise. If you're going to be in an MPG challenge it's helpful to start with a full battery for a few extra feet of distance on electric only. If you're going to be storing the car for a very extended period (3-6 months?) then it would probably be smart to have it as fully charged as possible. Other than that there are no advantages in daily driving.
     
    #2 efusco, Aug 28, 2007
  3. member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Aug 28 2007, 12:13 PM) [snapback]503303[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks for the reply. There are times when my Prius doesn't want to charge more than 2 bars. I'm not sure if it's hot weather, running the AC or what. The engine power certainly isn't taken advantage of to charge it as RPMs sound the same. Occasionally I'll start a long steep hill in this condition, and I was looking for a way of not running out of battery while driving. Can you suggest another way?
     
    #3 member, Aug 28, 2007
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Display Name @ Aug 28 2007, 02:13 PM) [snapback]503343[/snapback]</div>
    You'll never run out of battery. Just drive the car it'll do the rest.
     
    #4 efusco, Aug 28, 2007
  5. member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Aug 28 2007, 01:17 PM) [snapback]503346[/snapback]</div>

    I actually run out of battery frequently. The result is an extremely
    sluggish car that works hard to maintain 30mph uphill. It makes sense really.
    Since the car draws off and charges the battery on long steep hills the same as it would
    on flat ground. There is horsepower to spare obviously because the engine isn't
    revving to compensate for the uphill load until *after* it runs out of battery.
     
    #5 member, Aug 28, 2007
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Climbing a 6% grade, if you'll keep your speed below 65 mph and 55 mph is perfect, you'll not have any significant battery drain. As your speed reaches 65 and above, the battery drain becomes pretty ugly. My trick is to follow a heavy truck up the truck climb lane. They are usually running at a perfect speed.

    As for when a 'force charge' makes sense, let us say you have a reporter or hybrid skeptic you want to let drive your car. About half and hour before the meeting, do a 'force charge.' Then let them drive the car. Sure the mileage will look even better than normal but that is just to compensate for them driving it badly. <grins>

    I also use this technique when testing quarter mile acceleration or when sitting next to a particularly obnoxious, gas-hog or motorcyclist. To them, the car sounds like it is running but in a 'Walter Mitty' sort of way . . . pocket-ta pocket-ta pocket-ta . . . and then the light changes. <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, Aug 28, 2007
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bwilson4web @ Aug 28 2007, 01:30 PM) [snapback]503356[/snapback]</div>
    Ignoring the car's payload and slowing/accelerating around tight curves, you may be right.

    I tried the force-charge yesterday and it worked as advertised. Thank you efusco!

    The thread I had read long ago entailed pushing the gas pedal to the floor twice, and the car would charge by itself without holding anything down. Does that ring a bell?
     
    #7 member, Aug 29, 2007
  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Display Name @ Aug 29 2007, 08:50 AM) [snapback]503724[/snapback]</div>
    No, never heard of that.
     
    #8 efusco, Aug 29, 2007
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Display Name @ Aug 29 2007, 08:50 AM) [snapback]503724[/snapback]</div>
    There are some 'maintenance modes' that leave the engine running for those states that must have an emissions gas sample. However, I've not tried to keep up on them and they really aren't for battery force charging.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #9 bwilson4web, Aug 29, 2007
  10. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Display Name @ Aug 28 2007, 08:20 PM) [snapback]503348[/snapback]</div>
    And this is a problem? Are you saying it can't maintain 30mph uphill? Or are you really just complaining that it's a bit noisy?

    I'm far from convinced that attempting to "manually" charge the battery first will work out more efficient overall than just letting it run at high revs up the hill.
     
    #10 KMO, Aug 29, 2007
  11. member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KMO @ Aug 29 2007, 11:27 AM) [snapback]503835[/snapback]</div>
    It really can't maintain 30 mph uphill. I'm accustomed to the ICE sound. Efficiency isn't always the ultimate goal.
     
    #11 member, Aug 29, 2007
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Display Name @ Aug 29 2007, 02:44 PM) [snapback]503913[/snapback]</div>
    Could you provide more detail:

    1) Google map showing the segment
    2) Topozone map of the same segment

    All of my data indicates you should be OK up to 60 mph. We really need to understand the scenario including what happens before reaching the base of the hill. Also, is this just one hill or do other hills present the same problem.

    Thanks,
    Bob Wilson

    ps. On the Google map, use the point-to-point driving option to get a route segment that includes the hill. It doesn't have to include any sensitive data such as home or work locations. You can use the 'handles' in Google to make and even mark the start and stop of the hill. Google maps can give you a valid URL that we can use to bring up the same map or post it as a link in your reply.

    pps. Topozone is a little trickier. Navigate to the area and move the center point until it is in the middle of the hill. Then adjust the scale until you get something that overlaps the Google map. Topozone will also give you a cut-and-paste URL that we can use.
     
    #12 bwilson4web, Aug 29, 2007
  13. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Display Name @ Aug 29 2007, 03:44 PM) [snapback]503913[/snapback]</div>
    That's hard to believe, unless there is something wrong with your Prius. People go up Pike's Peak faster than that.

    Tom
     
    #13 qbee42, Aug 29, 2007
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Aug 29 2007, 03:17 PM) [snapback]503967[/snapback]</div>
    It's true, and it's repeatable on given routes, at least with my 07. Mind you I frequently drive with at least one other adult and do use AC in the summer. Pike's Peak's grade is relatively consistent so I wouldn't be surprised if people go up faster before battery drain. If you live in Colorado, you can try just about any route to Goldhill and see the problem. Also getting to Jamestown, Nederland etc. from the plains. An extreme example is coming from Pineclif to Wonderview. If anyone can do that at or above the posted limits without draining the battery I'd love to hear about it, especially with the AC on.

    Bob, I'm sorry but I don't wish to go to that much effort (to be honest) but if you're interested, you can map those towns I've mentioned. I've re-edited this post a couple times - forgot to add requested info. Yes, type of hill, or perhaps "sequence of inclines" does seem to matter. If I'm driving for 10 miles up a gentle incline, say 3% then hit something steep, like 6% or more, the car will continuously lose battery. If I drive, say, 5 mph over the limit, the same route can put the battery drain over the edge and the car will come to that crawl. If this happens on a steep incline, the car will not go over 30 mph. If you don't live in an area where you ascend and descend 3000-5000 ft on a trip, you may never experience this. Since we camp and fish a lot, we go into the foothills frequently so I've noticed this problem. Of course, coming down these slopes means my battery goes to a full charge very quickly.

    Found this link to other people with the same problem:

    http://priuschat.com/Lost-all-Power-going-...ses-t36757.html

    Also remembered this didn't seem to happen in the winter, and I'm wondering if a warm/hot battery simply discharges slower...
     
    #14 member, Aug 30, 2007
  15. fred s

    fred s New Member

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    Have you tried turning off the AC for this trip uphill?
     
    #15 fred s, Aug 30, 2007
  16. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Display Name @ Aug 30 2007, 12:41 PM) [snapback]504346[/snapback]</div>
    Ah, this makes more sense. It's the term "hill" that had me confused. Your idea of a hill is a lot different than mine. We have lots of hills, but the tallest one in the county is only about 450 feet from top to bottom. Mountain pass might get my attention. :D

    Tom
     
    #16 qbee42, Aug 30, 2007
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Display Name @ Aug 30 2007, 11:41 AM) [snapback]504346[/snapback]</div>
    Now I see the problem and the problem is clear. The rule of thumb I've found is:

    55 mph - works all the way to the top of any 6% grade
    60 mph - probably works OK
    65 mph - will run out of battery
    65+ mph - will run out pretty quickly

    AC is a problem so too is any additional weight. So my thinking is use to same speed as a heavy, semi-trailer going up a grade and you'll be good to go. Go faster and there will be disappointment.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #17 bwilson4web, Aug 30, 2007
  18. member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fred S @ Aug 30 2007, 11:52 AM) [snapback]504394[/snapback]</div>
    Good point! Yes I have, and I have 1 bar a little longer with the same end result. If we get stuck
    behind a cement truck or something and have to drive extremely slow the battery also lasts longer.


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bwilson4web @ Aug 30 2007, 04:05 PM) [snapback]504533[/snapback]</div>
    Any 6% grade? ;)

    Take a look in google earth at the route from Golden, Colorado, US to Georgetown, Colorado, US on I70.
     
    #18 member, Aug 30, 2007
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