I didn't see this posted anywhere, from the article in the Toronto Star--via Autoblog Green: "Meanwhile, Hymotion is focused on the aftermarket – retrofitting existing Priuses, as well as Ford Escapes and other hybrids. The goal is to push down cost, make the battery packs smaller, lighter. There are already 35 systems in the field and another 30 will be delivered in the coming few months, likely adding up to $2 million in revenues this year. The company is targeting production of up to 2,000 units in 2008. One pilot project alone being considered in California could result in a single order for 1,000 battery packs. For Hymotion it would require moving to a bigger location – likely somewhere in Mississauga, says Bazzarella. 'It's a good place to be, and we're close to Detroit.'" Only 2K units in 2008! Is it just me or does this seem a gross underestimation of how popular this conversion will be? Interesting last line, no? http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/250045
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SeniorDad @ Aug 29 2007, 10:01 PM) [snapback]504125[/snapback]</div> I don't think it's so much a question of popularity as how much they can produce. Also keep in mind that currently the systems are costing about $33K each, although that is sure to come down in the future. From the Q&A section on the page: <blockquote> Q. What are the biggest challenges facing your business? A. The market is there already, it's a question of how can we ramp up quickly. We have numerous fleets that would like to buy larger numbers now, and many interested consumers ... But we're backlogged. </blockquote>
I tried placing an order for a conversion, a few months ago. Couldn't, because of their backlog. This is a place I can drive to with six hours! I'd just need an EV-10, as my total mileage daily commute is less than 5 miles.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SeniorDad @ Aug 29 2007, 10:01 PM) [snapback]504125[/snapback]</div> I do not know, as fun as it would be to have that extra capacity the limit to 34mph on EV only, the questionable durability of the Li pack (unproven at this point), the very high cost, loss of space, etc will probably dramatically limit demand. I know I'm not going to be out looking for this pack as there is nowhere on my regular commute that the speed limit is below 35mph and several areas up to 45mph or even 60mph depending upon my route. I'm not a big fan of cost analysis on this stuff, but it is simply impossible to recover the cost of that additional battery capacity, you have to be doing this purely for altruistic reasons and be willing to eat that cost. I don't think the market for such people is as big as you're imagining...though some corporate entities may do it and be able to take some tax advantages and such for doing so.
Remember that having the pack will also give you dramatically better mileage ABOVE EV mode speeds. At 60 mph you can expect around 120-150 mpg with a charged pack. The reason is that you are getting a constant assist from the battery when it is charged, so the gasoline engine is barely working at all (and so using much less gasoline than normal at highway speeds).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Aug 30 2007, 10:05 AM) [snapback]504288[/snapback]</div> Of course, and I understand that, and for relatively short commutes that advantage would be significant. But that doesn't answer the questions about life expectancy for the the pack, the warranty for the Prius hybrid system is clearly voided by the install as well. I'm not saying that this mod isn't for anyone, but it's clearly not for everyone...hence my sense that a 2000 unit goal is probably realistic if not a bit high depending upon how many corporate buyers they end up with. Trust me, I applaud the effort and concept, but even with a high disposable income and a hankering to be the guinea pig for Prius mods this is not one I'll be doing.
Well, I'm sort of their ideal candidate, with a grotesquely long commute and perfectly willing to modify my high-mileage Prius . I'd really love this kind of plug-in mod. The really high price tag is what kills it for me. Drop 30K on a 30K car? <channelling Lewis Black> bub-bub-bub-bub What?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SeniorDad @ Aug 29 2007, 11:01 PM) [snapback]504125[/snapback]</div> Heh heh... moving into my backyard... Even their current location in Concord, Ontario is only a 20 minute drive from me, I go past that neighborhood everyday on my commute. I should probably drop by sometime and check it out for kicks... :lol: I am anxious to hear what happens with these guys, as I drive a lot and you never know, it may even make financial sense at some point (gas prices could go higher). However, I am sure the initial price will be higher than what I'd be willing to pay, but it is definitely something I plan to keep an eye on! B)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Aug 30 2007, 11:22 PM) [snapback]504729[/snapback]</div> I found this article interesting because it seemed to concentrate on the term "retrofit." I originally thought that Hymotion would be supplying a Li Battery pack for conversion to a PHEV, some software and then thxbye. But the article makes it seem that they are aiming to be a supplier of batteries to Priusessess when the NMiH battery pack packs it in. "The battery pack replacement is going to be a big market in the future," says the soft-spoken 37-year-old. "We're already getting interesting emails and phone calls from those who have older Priuses and they're in the market for a new battery pack." Sounds like a tale of two companies here, TMC telling us that market is yet to be determined and Hymotion saying we can't make 'em fast enough so we may need new digs. Hope someone over in Toyotaland is watching and listening.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SeniorDad @ Aug 31 2007, 02:59 PM) [snapback]505071[/snapback]</div> Their plan definitely appears to be offering the install to existing Prius and Hybrid Escapes. I originally thought it would be an additional battery to the NiMH, but it now sounds like it will be a replacement. I am just not sure about their "big market" expectations, as Toyota indicates the HV battery will last the life of the vehicle, and Prius history to date proves that. Therefore, it seems their target market will primarily be those of us (such as here on PC) who express an interest in upgrading their perfectly-working Prius to a PHEV. B) I just hope they are able to manufacture and offer them at a competitive price where it does make financial sense, and not only for the enthusiasts...
A couple of years ago, when EDrive Systems was claiming it would do this for $15,000 I was interested. But at $33,000 I have no interest. Yes, I could afford it, but when the finished car costs 2/3 the price of a Tesla Roadster, I'm out. As a cost-saving measure, it does not work: The higher mpg figure only applies during the relatively short distance that the battery has charge; and as a technology showcase, it falls short due to the Prius's inherent speed and acceleration limits in EV mode. The Prius is a superior car precisely because it was designed from the ground up as a hybrid (compared to Honda's IMA, which merely tacks a motor onto the engine). For a PHEV to really be a superior car, it must be designed from the ground up as a PHEV, capable of functioning fully as an EV for the entire duration of the battery charge. That means acceleration equal to a conventional car, and top speed equal to a conventional car. If the Volt were a real car, and not a fable perpetrated to deceive the public, it would be what a PHEV should be, assuming sufficient battery capacity to go 80 or 100 miles on battery power. My daily driving is electric now, and I'm not going back to a car that forces me to burn gas just to get downtown and back. I hate GM. They're evil and I think they're lying like dogs when they claim they're going to build the Volt. But I hope I'm wrong, and if they do build it, I'll be first in line to buy one if it has at least a 40-mile battery-only range and is the first one out that does what I want.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarge @ Aug 31 2007, 04:00 PM) [snapback]505136[/snapback]</div> What form a "replacement" battery pack would take is left unsaid also. Could it be that they are thinking about a Li non plug in too? I look forward to having to make the decision between paying more depreciation, registration, taxes, to buy a "new" car, or simply dropping a more efficient battery pack in my existing (and perfectly usable) vehicle.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Sep 1 2007, 08:56 AM) [snapback]505394[/snapback]</div> Let us know how you really feel, okay? My understanding is, the batteries will assist in full acceleration and speed scenarios, and in low-power scenarios you can go in EV-only, but for much longer than stock batteries would allow. I'm not sure why you think it isn't a fuuly capable modification. How's the Xebra working for you? I've looked at the pickup version, I think it would be perfect for most of my non-bicycle needs, but it sounds like they need to work on their quality.
