Prius vs. HUMMER: Exploding the Myth

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ May 12 2007, 06:21 PM) [snapback]440743[/snapback]</div>

But progress is being made. The Mail on Sunday has finally retracted (sort-of) the arid wilderness story. The story is no longer on line, and the link to it now produces:

Toyota factory
Last updated at 09:34am on 9th May 2007
It has come to our attention that a story originally published in the Mail on Sunday has apparently been misinterpreted by some of our readers.

In order to prevent further misinterpretation, we have removed the article from our website. The following letter was published in the Mail on Sunday on May 13, 2007:

Your article about the Inco nickel factory at Sudbury, Canada, wrongly implied that poisonous fumes from the factory had left the area looking like a lunar landscape because so many plants and trees had died. You also sought to blame Toyota because the nickel is used, among countless other purposes, for making the Prius hybrid car batteries.

In fact any damage occurred more than thirty years ago, long before the Prius was made. Since then, Inco has reduced sulphur dioxide emissions by more than 90 per cent and has helped to plant more than 11 million trees.

The company has won praise from the Ontario Ministry of Environment and environmental groups. Sudbury has won several conservation awards and is a centre for eco-tourism.
Dave Rado
Colchester
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/a...in_page_id=1770

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ May 14 2007, 08:38 AM) [snapback]441578[/snapback]</div>

True. I haven't needed to add to my list in over a month.

Also, I just double-checked those names. With the exception of Albertus, NONE of those thread starters have had more than a handful of posts since starting their threads, and most haven't posted AT ALL.

 

Good to see that the press is finally waking up to the problems with CNW's study. Various blogs were way ahead of them.

I made two entries in my blog:

http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=48

http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=66

And I thought I was late doing so. I simply didn't bother at first, because I figured no one would take such an obviously wrong study seriously. How wrong I was...

 

Latest rebuttal from the Pacific Institute

Hummer versus Prius: “Dust to Dust†Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zenMachine @ Jun 4 2007, 06:47 AM) [snapback]454924[/snapback]</div>

Latest editorial on the Prius vs. Hummer debate.

 

I'm a conservative...

Economic conservative.

Social conservative.

Conservative driver.

We bought a Prius because I knew three other Prius owners who could verify the MPG (of ca. 50 MPG) and comfort of the vehicle.
We test drove and made the decision. We paid $25K for this 2006 Prius. NB: We did NOT have the $50K for a Hummer.
Gas is over $3/gal. We commute 100 miles per day, five days a week. We save ca. $70 per week in gasoline costs. Each month, that's 3/4 of our car payment for the Prius.
We bought the Prius because we commute and we need to save money on gas. We've happily been doing this. NB: We did not buy the Prius to make an "environmental" statement or to be "green."
We DO NOT need Rush Limbaugh's help encouraging meatheads in SUVs to tailgate us down the highway! Conservatives buy and drive Prii (Pree-eye).
And, yeah, if you drive any vehicle like an aggressive jerk, you'll probably get poor mileage.

 

Could it be that some of you mix up the lifetime of the hybrid-vehicle with the lifetime of the battery-pack?

For replacing the Prius-battery we pay about € 2000-2500,- here in the EU!

And after 1 minute googeling i found out that there are prius-taxis that still drive around and have made 250,000 miles and more.

so whats the buzz?!

 

Yes, well, the hummer H3 still has 250 whole pounds more carrying capacity than the Prius...!

 

Thought it might be useful to compile a list of rebuttal articles/studies to respond with, and add them to the sticky, rather than have them burried off in the many other threads.

The Pacific Institute Study:
http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of...er_vs_prius.pdf

The retraction of the Sudbury mine article:
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/a...p;in_page_id=17

The CNW Study (includes the excel spreadsheet w. their data):
http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

cwerdna's excellent analysis debunking some of CNW's assumptions:
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showpost.php?p...mp;postcount=25

I can't figure out how to link to the attachements in cwerdna's original post, but his original post was here:
http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=1...mp;#entry272611

Anybody else have debunking resources to add?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(liquidsoapdispenser @ Apr 18 2007, 08:08 AM) [snapback]425312[/snapback]</div>

Voluntary efforts are fine, but judging by the outcry here when gas goes up to $3.75 a gallon, even Prius drivers don't want to pay the cost of those kinds of reductions.

California will reduce CO2 on the backs of the poor, who are disproportionately affected by slower economic growth, and can't afford the higher cost for basic necessities. If Californians were serious about it, they would pass a law that no one can have a house larger than 1,000 square feet per person without the excess square footage being offset by energy savings. The exodus from Hollywood would be dramatic.

But we aren't really serious about reducing CO2. We complain when gas goes up, and all of us here, who own Prius', are relatively rich compared to the poor.

 

I don't believe my owning a Prius (which I bought second hand) has an adverse affect on the poor. The real poor don't own cars so petrol prices have a minimal impact, social justice policies of government and business have the biggest impact, like minimum wages, access to free health care and social security. The biggest problem for the poor is the obscene wealth at the top is at the expence generally of the poor. Rich people are happy to send employment to poor countries even though wages are pitiful and even though it takes work away from your country because it allows them to buy a bigger thirstier car or a bigger house that needs more energy to heat. All this even though the car and house they had were more than adequate.

 

Here is the latest on the subject. Spread it around.

http://climateprogress.org/2007/08/27/priu...-basis-in-fact/

Or link to the main page;

http://climateprogress.org/

 

I wasn't sure if we added RMI's (Rocky Mountain Institute) study of the Dust to Dust assumptions or not.

The .pdf is located below.

Checking Dust to Dust's Assumptions about the Prius and the Hummer:


RMI is a think tank for for environmental health and economic prosperity so be aware of that while reading the article. I still like them and their ideas.

 

Actually...

I couldnt care LESS about the "green-ness" of my prius.

The smog laws have gotten to a point of diminishing returns, like MOST so-called environment friendly legislation.

Tree-huggers and the sierra club have pushed all kinds of regulations on the forest service. Those same regulations resulted in the burning of 60% of all forests in the western United States back about 4 years ago. It isnt about the environment anymore, if it ever was. Its all about keeping attornies in jobs in litigation with the government. And well meaning, emotional people worried about their environment. Active volcanos pollute far more than the sum total of mans pollution from the last 2,000 years. Environmentalists cant stop volcanos, cant stop the weather: nor could they possibly pollute the planet in excess of the planets capacity to absorb. Detonated nuclear warheads have only a short term environmental effect on the environment. People still live in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and are healthy. Man lacks the capacity to seriously damage God's creation (oops..not supposed to say "God" in front of environmentalists..it offends their Stalinist predisposition).

The place where I live has doubled in population. The air, due to needed smog laws, is cleaner than it probably has been in 150 years, before the automobile and the factory. But the forest fires kept it hazy most of the time, before the industrialization of the area.

I loved my diesel excursion. I had to sell it because the fuel cost exceeded my ability to pay.

Now if I can just figure out how to get this hybrid-barely-bigger-than-a-skateboard to belch black smoke...

 

The ignorance of this post is astounding. You would benefit from a few natural resource and ecology classes. My last course (Natural Resource Conservation) was taught by a botany professor (ex- U.S. Forest Service employee). You are completely and utterly wrong about the environment and anthropogenic emissions. If you are going to attack with such ferocity at least have your facts straight or you end up looking like a moron to those of us who do know the facts.

 

I agree. This guy is a total idiot, and I don't say that lightly. We could come back with facts (line-by-line would be easy), but it appears he doesn't use facts, so it would likely be a waste of time. First post also, dspur59 might not even read the responses or is deliberately looking for a flame war.

 

What I Do Know About Hummers & Priuses

After 4 yrs and 70 K miles I 've come to several conclusions. First of all, the Prius far exceeded all my expectations. While on vacation in Vancouver, B.C. I noticed several taxi cabs (yellow Priuses). I was amazed by the owner/operaters and their stories and testimonies as to the total satisfaction they found in this hybrid car. Several of the drivers spoke of going over 150,000 miles and told how these amazing cars turned around their financial status. Total reliability and almost a constant conversation piece with the passengers. It sounded like free advertising every time a fare got in. I know this to be true because I praised the car countless times with "others" running out and buying one too.
As to the "Hummer" I'd like to point out a few things. The Hummer is huge. It never fits in a normal parking place without crowding the vehicles on either side and the rear sticks way out. It has one of the worst mpg ratings ( they're exempt from EPA ratings hmmmm) Check their Consumer's Report rating. Then check the Prius. Oh, then there's the ride of a Hummer. Ever hear of a Mac truck? By the way. Ever try getting in & out of a Hummer? Lastly I point out my favorite true encounter with a Hummer last spring when reg. gas was $3.39. I pulled into a gas-station behind a woman filling her husband's Hummer. She looked over at my Prius and asked if it was a hybrid? I responded yes and then heard the common misinformed question. "Where do you plug it in?" Then I heard the click of my nozzle telling me my fill-up was complete. Less than $25.00. As I left I couldn't help but notice her pump was about to close in on $100.00 and still pumping. Life is full of hybrid wisdoms. Oh,check the resale values of both vehicles. Which one wins that contest? Nuff said.

 

Welcome to PriusChat -- and thanks for posting your good news and great observations.

You may want to take a look at a couple of recent threads about Prius taxis!

BTW, please add info in your profile about the model year and package of your Prius.