Why? Why does a MAC cost more than a PC?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tleonhar @ Aug 22 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]500389[/snapback]</div>

You sound like one of those Detroit 3 guys I'm always arguing with: 'I've got a Chevrolet with a million miles on it and never had any trouble with it and never had to take it in for anything, not even an oil change and it gets thirty miles to the gallon' I'm glad you're one of the few Dell users who's got one of the like three that they've built that didn't fall apart right away but you're an exception not the rule. My company only uses Dell. They've purchased three laptops for me over the years and every one of them has had at least one hard drive failure and it isn't the bottom of the line either. Also, as Dell user, if you ever have problems, you have to deal with their customer support people who live in another country, don't speak english very well and you can't understand them so, again, good luck. Fortunately, our IT department has to deal with them so at least all I have to worry about is all of the lost data that the failed hard drive caused.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Aug 22 2007, 12:53 PM) [snapback]500429[/snapback]</div>

Are you saying that Apple makes their own hard drives??? Sorry, but I don't think so, Apple buys drives from the same manufacturers as everyone else. Processors used to be Motorola but now Intel. As for customer support in our company, that would be me (no I do not work for Dell), with the number of PC's we have, we do our own support. We do by the way have a small number of Macs, from a failure standpoint, they are no better or worse than the PC's but a major pain in the butt to work on (or use for that matter). As for what vendor we buy our PC's from, we constantly look at all the builders out there, we are not comitted to just Dell, they do however make two lines of machines, a consumer grade and an industrial, we are buying the industrial versions, and I will agree with you that many of the consumer grades leave a lot to be desired which is why for my personal use, I go home built, and you can't go home or custom built with a Mac.

 

First off to the OP: Apples and oranges, buddy... If you're comparing a mac mini, compare it to a desktop PC of the same size, if you can find one. or how about just a desktop PC? If you're looking at a laptop from dell, compare it to a laptop from apple.

Second, Mac's used to cost significantly more than PC's, mostly due to the different design/architecture and the limited source of components. Since the switch to Intel, however, prices on Mac's have been coming down. I've read a lot of people who have reviewed comparable Mac's and PC's (based on what you're getting, not what you're paying), and in each case the Mac was a little more expensive, but you also got a whole lot of extras - like iLife - that you didn't get with the PC, and didn't get a whole lot - like the "30 day AOL trials and other crapware - that you did get with the PC's. When you actually get down to comparing comparable hardware and software, you'll see that Mac's are actually very competitively priced. Sure, buy the cheaper PC, then go spend $100 on photo management software, and $200 on some decent movie editing software, and $150 on music composition software and it all starts adding up...

Don't think i'm a huge Mac fanboy with blinders on, either - I have 6 computers at home - Two running variants of Linux, One mac, and 3 Window's boxes. And before you start petitioning me Kow, i'm already a member of 3 distributed networking projects, timesharing on my boxes, including Rosetta which is doing protein folding just like your project.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wiiprii @ Aug 22 2007, 12:47 PM) [snapback]500422[/snapback]</div>

Way back in the DOS/GUI wars I used to say that the PCers were enamoured of the process, whereas the Mac users were enamoured of the product. PCs are for gamers and number crunchers. Macs are for artists and those that create. Jurassic Park CGI was done all on Macs.

It's like dissing Dreamweaver for how easy it is and how much it cost when you can just learn to write HTML code. Uh....no thanks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 22 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]500462[/snapback]</div>

Oh, don't get me started on that... If you've ever looked at the code dreamweaver (and similar products) creates, it's ugly and incomprehensible... If you want something that's maintainable and reusable, you don't use dreamweaver at all... Which actually sorta supports wiiprii's point - those that use dreamweaver are looking for something that just gets the job done. those that don't are looking for something that does the same job in a much more elegant way.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Aug 22 2007, 01:32 PM) [snapback]500470[/snapback]</div>

Dreamweaver allows the masses to create webpages. Add the suite and you've got access to a lot.

Not everyone has the time or patience to learn code. Nor the money to hire someone that does.

I don't know what the industry standard is now but it used to be the Macromedia Suite. Not HTML coding.

Like I said...process versus product. Most people want a product. Most people want to buy a shirt. They don't want to grown the cotton, spin it, weave it, then learn how to drape a pattern, cut and sew to get a shirt. I'll buy fabric and a pattern and then modify it to get the shirt I want. But I'm not growing cotton, spinning thread and weaving cloth to get a shirt.

 

Another data point:

Dell spends next to nothing on R&D, probably less than 0.1% of total revenues. R&D for Dell is performed by their suppliers. Check out Dell's patent portfolio - they'll be about methods of managing inventory for their BTO process. There won't be any technology patents. And that R&D expense of the supplier's is amortized over a larger number of units than for Apple. Apple spends about $800,000,000 on R&D a year, or about 4% of sales.

Last time I priced workstations, a MacPro was easily cost competitive with a Dell Precision Workstation, which is the appropriate machine to compare it against. In fact, where I work, people frequently purchase MacPro workstations and run Windows on them, as they feel it's a better machine for the money than a Dell PW. It's not fair to compare the MacPro against a machine I could build from parts purchased at NewEgg, I could always beat the MacPro's price by choosing a cheap enclosure and power supply, and components that were on sale at the time of purchase. But it wouldn't be a workstation class machine like the MacPro or Dell PW.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wiiprii @ Aug 22 2007, 01:47 PM) [snapback]500422[/snapback]</div>

...and gamers That is the only reason that I dont run a mac as my main.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Slair @ Aug 22 2007, 02:01 PM) [snapback]500496[/snapback]</div>

Ah. Well, I don't do games. The only ones I used to try occasionally were the text based Infocom. And they were available for Mac. I've still have the complete collection.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Aug 22 2007, 01:38 PM) [snapback]500408[/snapback]</div>

Not anymore. There are 2 things that used to seperate Mac's from PCs. Hardware and software. Mac's used to use the G line of processors and have traditional had the RISC architecture but with the most recent MacBooks however they have switched to intel core 2 duo processors which means they are now using the same off the shelf parts that a DELL uses (with the exception of laptop case, keyboard, etc.. But DELL's cases are proprietary too). The second is software Mac OSX vs. Windows. Mac wins. Even if it is a dumbed down system that makes things "too easy" it is still way more stable and functional than Windows.

They do generally have a little better displays that most PCs. However higher end DELL's like the XPS have very nice displays.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Slair @ Aug 22 2007, 12:01 PM) [snapback]500496[/snapback]</div>

Yeah I bought a Dell 4700 PC *just* to run X-plane.

I checked online just now on the Dell site, and their notebooks are more expensive than the equivilant Apple. I compared a Dell XPS 13.1" notebook to the Apple 13" Macbook and you'd be paying $348 more for the Dell with equal specs (EDIT: Not equal specs, the Dell can't run OSX!!)

So no, PC's aren't always cheaper than Macs. :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Aug 22 2007, 02:34 PM) [snapback]500473[/snapback]</div>

Yes Firefox works great on Vista. PortableFirefox works even better though (I take it to work with me) Vista is kinda pretty but there is no "needed" functional improvements.

 

Call me a sucker for a pretty face, but I think macs are elegant, especially the iMac. Anything else tends to look like the box it came in.
I think there's a difference in markets between home and business users that influences the decision. For home, the mac is the obvious choice. I use a PC at work along with the rest of the drones because I have to, not because I want to.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Aug 22 2007, 10:56 AM) [snapback]500261[/snapback]</div>

Don't buy a Mac Mini, they're the most expensive computer Apple sells when you compare capabilities. Buy an iMac...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wayne @ Aug 22 2007, 12:35 PM) [snapback]500529[/snapback]</div>

Yes, I totally agree. The iMac offers a lot more for the money than a Mac Mini. I don't really know what kind of person buys a Mac Mini. They did recently get refreshed to offer the Core 2 Duo processor but other than that, they aren't that great unless you need a little tiny Mac.

I love my MacBook!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Aug 22 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]500470[/snapback]</div>

Are you talking about recently, like in the last couple of years? The experience with the butchering of HTML code by WYSIWYG software is what kept me away from Dreamweaver for a long time. My first experience was with Netscape's editor 10 years ago, and that turned me off to any editor and I just started making webpages in Notepad. Now, Dreamweaver is my tool of choice for keeping my church's site updated. I can still code manually within Dreamweaver, if I want to, but for the most part, it handles HTML code quite elegantly and it works well for site management. It's pretty powerful for coders, as it has the manual entry and it helps to keep track of things a lot easier.

 

Well, i haven't done any front end work for several years... My experience was that those things all pretty much sucked. I just got together with several other people here at work to build a prototype of what our application should be like (in one vertical slice)... the front end portion alone dropped in code size 90% through the proper (not auto-generated) use of code...