2007 vs 2008 Prius

In my opinion buy now, there are no appreciable changes for 2008. The 2009 model is not completely understood but appears will not be the big redesign that has been rescheduled for 2011 and may not be worth a trade let alone waiting all that time. The 2011 car is the one that will get the trade-ins.

 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(catgic @ Aug 10 2007, 05:35 AM) [snapback]493456[/snapback]</div>

Why do automakers always do this! :angry: Cruise control is an absolute requirement, I will never again purchase a vehicle that does not feature cruise control. It costs the OEM $15 to $25 at the most. However, it always seems to be part of option package or trim level that costs $1000 to $2500 and includes lots of useless crap.

Maybe I'm just strange but my list of required options are:

ABS, Side Airbags, Power Doors, Power Windows, Cruise Control

When I was looking for a car, I was first looking at small hatchbacks. The Yaris hatch was not available with cruise, nor was the Hyundai Accent. Wake up Automakers!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JacksonMs @ Aug 10 2007, 04:36 PM) [snapback]493762[/snapback]</div>

Yes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JacksonMs @ Aug 10 2007, 04:36 PM) [snapback]493762[/snapback]</div>

You have the answer. Buy the 2007 if you can get a discount, if not buy the 2008. Discount means 10% off.

 

Toyota's press release did say "August". However, every dealer I have talked to says that would be surprising, since 08's don't show up in any of their upcoming inventories. They have not even gotten the brochures yet, and they say that typically, the brochures show up several weeks before the acutal vehicles do. The most definite answer I have heard is that they may be available in mid-september.

ruagt advises to get a 2007 for 10% off otherwise get a 2008. After all of the work I have done trying to locate my car, I would say: good luck with that strategy. Right now, many dealers still sell the '07 at or above sticker price, and good luck getting the car you want in stock. Most of the dealers I have talked to on the West Coast have them presold before they show up. This is 2007's I am talking about. This isn't BS from a single salesman, it is the consistent story I get everywhere from San Francisco to San Diego.

I would say that when the 2008's come out, your choice will be: Get a 2007 at sticker, or pay a major premium, and wait six weeks for delivery, and get a 2008.

Since the 2008 appears to be identical to the 2007 in every respect, I decided to get the '07 today, particularly since I was able to get the exact color/configuration I wanted, and pay only a few hundered over the base price (not sticker, but sticker minus the typical dealer-added markups). I am pretty happy about that, plus the fact that I will definitely be able to get the remaining $707 tax credit.

Realistically, until there are appreciable numbers of 2008 models sitting around in current dealer invetories, you are not going to see a significant discount on a 2007 model.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JG in SB @ Aug 11 2007, 01:50 PM) [snapback]494049[/snapback]</div>

How do you tell if a car salesperson is lying?

His or her lips are moving.

If you are paying MSRP (not counting the dealer's markup, but the factory sticker), you are overpaying. Instant gratification has its cost.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Aug 11 2007, 03:02 PM) [snapback]494075[/snapback]</div>

I deal with salesmen, attorneys, and lots of the other so-called classic liars as part of my day-job all the time. Effectively sorting out liars from honest people is a large part of what I get paid for. It is easy enough to figure out when someone is lying to me. When you can check out a number of sources, and get a consistent story, before they each know you are checking them out against others, then it is usually a good indication that there is some truth to the story.

Here is something I know just as well as the "salesmen are lying when their lips are moving" thing: generally, when a salesman has something that you want available to sell to you, and you have the money to buy it, he will generally sell it to you. They don't gain anything by saying "I don't have that available", or "I can't locate that car for you anywhere" if in fact they DO have it available and/or CAN locate it for you. Ponder that for a few minutes

It is easy to say "Oh, you can get it cheaper than that". Much harder to actually do it though, especially given my observations of the market for these right now (I notice that IsrAmerPrius owns a 2005 model...which makes me wonder if he has shopped for a Prius recently). The preceding post reminds me of my old boss (I do real estate land acquisition) who would always say "Oh you should be able to get if for less than that" no matter how good of a transaction anyone could line up. Yet interestingly, he could not ever point to a single actual transaction to demonstrate his assertion that "you could get it for cheaper". Again, easy to say.....much harder to actually do.

The fundamental economic principle of supply vs. demand affects the Prius just like everything else. Dealers, who like to sell cars for a little profit, rather than for fun or charity, are not going to sell you a new 2007 Prius for a 10% discount simply because because you ask for it. There are plenty of other folks out there apparently happy to pay MSRP (and often OVER MSRP) to buy the same car. The dealer knows this. The dealer can sell the car to them. This is particualry relevant if you want a popular color (like classic silver) in a touring model. If there was a "glut" of these things sitting on the lots, which would be a major inventory liability, maybe you could expect discounts. But that doesn't seem to be the case, at least at dealerships I have talked to. I would guess the whole supply/demand thing would tend to skew more in the Seller's favor when you start to talk about 2008's. Unless by some strange miracle of manufacturing, toyota manages to produce 2 million of them in a few weeks, and by an equally strange miracle of overseas shipping, delivers them to US shores simultaneously. I guess you could expect to get discounts if THAT happens

 

Availability of Prii varies on any given lot at any given time. Earlier this summer it appears some dealerships had an over supply of Prii and were offering deals at $2K below MSRP. Yes, there were cars sitting on several lots here in south SF bay area. Perhaps they were already preparing for the 08s.

I agree that dealers will be less likely to negotiate on early 08 arrivals. Perhaps a better deal could be had on an 07. If not, and waiting another month is acceptable, wait.

 

Everyone's purchase experience will be different; I bought a new 2007 Package #6 last week and my purchase price was $2,500 below MSRP. The dealership had 52 Prii in stock and their website now shows 57 in stock. The substantial savings on the 2007 model was a significant part of my decision to buy now instead of waiting for a 2008.

 

First let me say I know nothing about the availability of these cars where you live. But every time I have tried to buy a new car, the first thing out of the salesman's mouth has been "oh those are hard to get / very rare". Usually this is after I select a paint color. Also, almost every person I've ever talked to about their recent car purchase has been led to believe that they got the last one ever available "This was the only white rabbit convertible with a white top left in canada..." even when the car was very common or mundane.

Clearly, this is a sales tactic to deter shopping around or to get you emotionally tied to whatever they have on offer. If the prius was so much in demand, they wouldn't be offering promotional lease rates on it this year.

Also, one other thing I know about salespeople is that while they may have one of product A available that you asked for, they may have 100 of product B in the back that they are getting a spif or kickback on, and they will steer you towards B.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sonny Jim @ Aug 11 2007, 08:30 PM) [snapback]494198[/snapback]</div>

Great example to illustrate the supply and demand concept that most people are familiar with from freshman economics in college. Even better that you were able to leverage this concept into a $2,500.00 off MSRP price!!!

52 prii in stock on the lot means that you have some power to negotiate with them. They have an inventory problem, and they need to move out standing inventory before it becomes a liability. Probably they will have trouble getting allocations of new cars as well if they have that many not moving.

In contrast, my local Toyota dealer, has exactly three (3) prii in stock. None of them are Touring models. None of them have package #6. None of them are Classic Silver color. The Ventura dealership had something like seven (7) prii in stock. Same problem (i.e. not having the color and options I wanted). Longo Toyota, the "Largest Toyota Dealership In The World" has exactly three (3) Prius Touring units in stock. Not any with the colors/options I want.

I purchased a 2007 Classic Silver/Dark Grey Leather Package #6 Prius today from Earl Stewart Toyota. The salesman told me that they had two coming in on Monday, and that one was presold. This lined up exactly with the online inventory search that I had previously done of this dealership's inventory. Was the salesman BS'ing me about the scarcity of this car? If so, he must have used his psychic powers to predict that I would be cold-calling him from out of state looking for exactly this car, and then went to great lengths to collude with the person that manages that dealership's website in advance of me calling him. Seems sort of unlikely.

If you want a gold Prius, or Silver Pine Mica, or Black, you might have bettter odds at geting a discount. If you want Classic Silver or Magnetic Gray (which seem to be the two most popular colors), I think you will find that the salesman is telling you the truth when they say these are very difficult to get in a Touring version these days. Chek it out and see for yourself. I base my statements on a week's worth of shopping dealers all over California and even out of state.

When the facts that you can observe for yourself line up pretty well with what someone is telling you, then it is likely that person is telling the truth. Even if they are a car salesman

The post about salesmen trying to persuade you to go with Item #B that they might have alot of when you want item #A is totally true. I tell them not to waste any time trying to convince me to get something that is different than what I want. Usually, they understand at that point.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Aug 10 2007, 08:46 AM) [snapback]493475[/snapback]</div>

The key is the manufacturer knows you want that one item.

When the Ford Focus ZX3 was introduced in the US in 1999, even the base model included a tach and an armrest. Then, when Ford USA gave it a facelift in 2005 (instead of replacing it with the all-new European model), they decontented it and the previously standard tachometer and center armrest were deleted while the price stayed the same. Sales tanked even worse and I'm sure this little marketing move contributed.

It reminds me of a time when an electric rear window defroster wasn't standard equipment on all cars. Toyota and Honda came on the scene and began including it as standard equipment. Domestic manufacturers resisted this for a long time to be able to charge for the defroster as an option but finally relented. I don't know, but I don't think it's possible to even buy a car without a rear-window defroster anymore.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JG in SB @ Aug 11 2007, 05:56 PM) [snapback]494134[/snapback]</div>

One of my best friends is a car broker, so I am quite familiar with the current Prius availability in Southern California.

A couple weeks ago, a colleague bought a new Millennium Silver Prius Touring package 6 with the dark gray leather interior for $26,000 before tax and license (not through my friend).

Last week I saw a Southern California Toyota Dealers Association TV ad, during the evening news, promoting $2,000 incentives on the Prius.

If you cannot find the car you want for a reasonable price (and MSRP is NOT a reasonable price at the very end of the model year), wait. The supply will change as soon as the '08 models hit the dealerships this month. Back in '04 I waited for almost a year for the color and package of my choice at a price that I was willing to pay. Many were paying $3-5,000 over MSRP at the time. I got mine for MSRP on the first day that the '05 models arrived at dealers' showrooms. I know several who paid significant premiums over MSRP for '04 models several weeks after I got mine. Patience is a virtue, Instant gratification can be costly.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Aug 12 2007, 10:24 AM) [snapback]494318[/snapback]</div>

You waited a year to get your car? OK then. Clearly, getting the best-possible deal is a priority for you over everything else. Personally, I think it is sort of amusing that someone would wait around an entire year to try and "get the best deal possible". While others willing to pay a little bit more were driving around in that same car enjoying it for the same year.

It makes me wonder what type of computer you are using My guess is an IBM 486 processor model because they just keep coming out with better and better computers for less and less money and you want to make sure that you get the best possible computer for the least amount of money. Am I on track here?

In my case, I am moving to the Prius out of a 2006 Audi A6 S-line. I can currently sell my car for about $47,000.00. If I wait even two months to sell it, It will likely be worth around $42,000.00. So I don't mind paying MSRP if: a) I don't have to wait months to get the car I want, and B) I don't have to trade a $5,000 depreciation loss on my curent vehical for the satisfaction of knowing I got the "best deal possible" saving a few hundered bucks on a Prius. I try to look at the big picture.

Have a great day!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JG in SB @ Aug 12 2007, 10:52 AM) [snapback]494331[/snapback]</div>

No. I did wait for the "best possible deal." I simply refused to pay a 15-20% extortionary premium over MSRP and I wanted the car in one of two colors. It was quite common at the time to wait six month to a year. I did turn one down at MSRP eight months into my waiting period because I refused to pay full price two and a half months before the model change; besides, it was not in the color of my choice. You sound like one of the folks who had to have the car ASAP in those days and who paid as much as $6,000 over MSRP because they could not wait.

You could not be farther off the track. I have a Pentium IV machine that was pretty much cutting edge when I got it (it has the second to fastest processor then available). I did get it while Dell was running a promotion that saved me close to $400, though.

Am I supposed to be impressed? I drove an E class Mercedes before I got my Prius and a comparable Audi before that.

Your trade in will not depreciate $5,000 between now and the time that the '08 Prius is due to arrive. The supply will loosen and dealers will negotiate again. It is not 2004 and 2005 any more. Toyota is now selling as many Priuses in two months as it sold in the entire '04 model year and as many in four months as it sold in the '05 model year. Your '07 Prius will lose quite a bit of its value the moment that the '08s are here; probably more than your Audi would have depreciated in the same window of time.

As I wrote earlier, instant gratification can be costly. But then, if you have money burning a hole in your pocket, who is to stop you? Just remind me not to have you negotiate any real estate transactions on my behalf, you don't seem to appreciate the value of money.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Aug 10 2007, 05:46 AM) [snapback]493475[/snapback]</div>

Stripped down means STRIPPED DOWN. They are only putting in what the federal government says they have to. If you don't want a car totally stripped down then don't buy one. Other people do or have to. Get the next model up. Check the monthly payments. It's less than $5 per month for the next model up.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(catgic @ Aug 10 2007, 03:35 AM) [snapback]493456[/snapback]</div>

Duh. When there are more options on a car I should expect to pay the same or less? Is that the way you would run your business? I don't think so.

If you don't want the top end version, don't buy it.

 

People call around to this day wondering if we have any left over new 2006 Prii... LOL

It's not distressed merchandise folks. We usually start to run out of 07's (Corolla's are a good example) right around the time we are close to getting 08's. Toyota is GOOD at it. Our nationwide supply of Prii is down to less than a week again...

Sure, you COULD wait until the bitter end and hope you can still find a color/package you want in an 07 for a token discount. Or, you could wait a month, get an 08 for a little more $$$, and not have to waste a ton of time trying to track down an 07 that meets your requirements.

The MSRP to Invoice ratio on a Prius just isn't worth fretting that much over, especially when you weigh the benefit of having a year newer car. Even if you could get an 07 for invoice (unlikely but possible), the value between an 07 and an 08 more than offsets it.

If you have to have it now, get one. If you can wait a few weeks, get an 08.

Do your sanity the favor and don't overthink this one too much. The $$$ involved either way makes it a wash (if not a small lean to the 08).