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Toyota Faces Hybrid Drought

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Sticman, Aug 10, 2007.

  1. Sticman

    Sticman New Member

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    From the Wall Street Journal...

    Toyota Faces New Hybrid Drought
    By NORIHIKO SHIROUZU
    August 9, 2007 5:54 p.m.

    DETROIT -- As safety concerns drive Toyota Motor Corp. to delay the launches of high-mileage hybrids that tap lithium-ion battery technology, the Japanese auto maker will likely face a relatively long drought of new and redesigned hybrids in the U.S. from now through the end of 2010.

    According to company executives who spoke on condition of anonymity, Toyota will likely launch only a few gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles during the period. One of the executives said Toyota will introduce just three new and redesigned hybrid models, including the redesigned Prius sedan and the next-generation Lexus RX hybrid crossover, in the U.S. market.

    "It's going to be a long drought, and we don't look forward to it at all," the executive said. As a result, he and other knowledgeable executives said, Toyota won't likely be able to meet its goal of selling one million gas-electric hybrids a year globally by early next decade. That goal assumed Toyota to sell about 600,000 hybrids a year in the U.S., up from nearly 200,000 in 2006.

    According to the same executives, Toyota's engineering division in Japan is currently scrambling to finalize a medium-term hybrid product plan by the end of this year, and that plan may clarify when the company is able to sell one million hybrids a year globally.

    Tomomi Imai, a Toyota spokesman in Tokyo, declined to comment.

    The Wall Street Journal reported this week1 that Toyota until recently was planning to launch a dozen new and redesigned hybrids using next-generation lithium-ion battery technology in the U.S. between 2008 and 2010. Its current hybrids use nickel-metal-hydride batteries. But safety concerns with lithium-ion technology, according to the newspaper, forced Toyota to back away from that timetable.

    According to the executives, Toyota is delaying those planned launches -- intended as a big hybrid marketing push -- by one to two years. Most of those planned lithium-ion hybrids are now likely to hit the U.S. market in a two-year period starting in 2011, they said.

    Lithium-ion batteries Toyota is trying to develop use particles of lithium cobalt oxide. But such batteries have shown a tendency to overheat, catch fire or explode in some cases when they are damaged in an accident or there is a flaw in their manufacturing. Similar problems bedeviled lithium-ion batteries for laptops made by Japan's Sony Corp.

    They said Toyota had planned to use lithium-ion batteries starting with the redesigned Prius, originally scheduled for launch in late 2008. But as part of the delays precipitated by safety concerns about lithium-ion technology, the company has decided to not to. The company will instead use the conventional nickel-metal-hydride batteries it has been using in the Prius since its launch in the late 1990s in Japan. The next-generation Prius using conventional batteries is expected to hit U.S. dealer showrooms in early 2009, instead of late 2008.

    Aside from the redesigned Prius using conventional hybrid batteries, the executives said, two other hybrids will likely use nickel-metal-hydride batteries even though they originally were planned to tap lithium-ion technology. Both of those hybrids -- the redesigned Lexus RX car-SUV crossover hybrid and a new hybrid-only Lexus model -- are currently due out in 2009.

    The next big wave of hybrid launches, as a result, will not come until 2011, when an array of hybrid models using lithium-ion battery technology are expected to hit the market in the U.S. over a two-year period, they said.

    The first Toyota hybrid that uses lithium-ion batteries will likely arrive in the U.S. in early 2011 when a derivative of the next-generation Prius, a wagon, comes out.

    After the Prius wagon, one knowledgeable Toyota executive said Toyota plans to launch up to nine more new and redesigned hybrids using lithium-ion batteries in the 2011 and 2012 timeframe, although the timing could still change as the company firms up its medium-term hybrid product schedule. The executive said up to nine models are being planned for the U.S., but some models may drop out from the plan.

    Among those currently planned are a new wagon-style crossover with three rows of seating based on the Asia-only Wish; a wagon derivative of the Camry; a sporty coupe currently code-named FT-HS, which was shown at the Detroit Auto Show earlier this year as a concept car; and possibly a hybrid version of the redesigned Corolla.

    Toyota, according to the knowledgeable executives, is also mulling developing a lithium-ion-battery hybrid version of the RAV4 crossover SUV and the Estima minivan hybrid, currently sold only in Japan, launching them some time in 2012. But those projects are still "very fluid," one of the executives says.
     
  2. mikeg

    mikeg New Member

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    I don't understand. How can Toyota be having these problems, yet Tesla Motors is about to start production of their cars? I thought Tesla was using the same batteries that Toyota wants to use in their next gen car?

    What gives??
     
  3. dipper

    dipper Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikeg @ Aug 10 2007, 10:11 AM) [snapback]493611[/snapback]</div>
    Lets see....

    Tesla = ~200 unit/yr .... 0 in the market.
    Toyota = ~500k unit/yr...... a few million in the market.


    Get the picture?
     
  4. ceric

    ceric New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikeg @ Aug 10 2007, 12:11 PM) [snapback]493611[/snapback]</div>
    because Tesla costs about $100K! And, what is the warranty of Tesla? 10 years like our Prius?
    It is for rich people (money is of no concern to them). How much will the replacement battery cost? $30K?
    For the rest of us, Li-Ion is not ready for prime time in automobiles.

    However, I am very curious about A123' new Li-Ion. GM seem to be very confident that their
    battery is on track in development. GM claimed Volt is on schedule to be tested with A123's battery
    at the end of 2008. As I said before, the game of Plug-in is on the battery. Whoever can make the battery
    work realistically will have the big chunk of profit and the world will benefit from it greatly.
     
  5. orenf

    orenf New Member

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    One thing that I find confusing in all this:

    OK, so the next generation Prius will still use NiMH batteries. But will it be a PHEV or not?

    All the recent articles mention that the vehicle that was planned to be launched in '09 will now be launched in '11, and that a "newer" Prius (with NiMH) will be introduced in '09, but they're all quite on the plug-in-ability of the '09 model.
     
  6. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    One factor worth considering is that Toyota has established a tough act to follow with the success of their NiMh battery. The Toyota LiIon replacement does not have the option of being gradually introduced. It must come on line at the full production rate and maturity of the NiMh already established in just one year. Any other auto manufacturer (including Tesla) does not have this huge pipeline to instantly fill with a new technology.
     
  7. mikeslavis

    mikeslavis New Member

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