Smart Key - Health Hazard??

Me personally, I think you should place your smart key as close to your gonads as possible. If you think about it, that little box undoubtedly deflects more RF radiation than it produces. You will be comforted in knowing you are well protected. And, as a bonus for the scatterbrain types, you will receive a constant reminder that you did not lose your smart key.

 

God, I am so afraid.....

For 10 years I worked at a TV station. 100,000 Watts between 6 and 100 feet away from the transmitter.

For another 10 years I was chief engineer of a radio station. 1000 Watts. My office immediately under the transmitter. Hmmmm, 5 feet away.

Gawd, now I carry a KeyFob all the time near my gonads.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

NOT

But yet we all die. Damn! Is it the water? The air we breath? The food we eat?

I am sorry to make fun of this subject but I agree with the lack of science knowledge in this country. The only people who will make you believe something like this are lawyers. And yet they die too. Gee wiz!

Cheers

 

I used to work in radio at my alma mater. Shoot, who would've thought we were supposed to turn off the 1,400-Watt transmitter before we climbed up the tower? (Edit: yeah, they don't let anybody except bonded contractors do that anymore, simply because of liability issues)

I still hear stories about students out on a remote broadcast who don't understand why they should raise the antenna above people's heads so they don't go blind and/or sterile.

 

I think the cell phone is a great yardstick for radio energy health concerns... there's no consumer device we come into contact with on a daily basis that puts out anywhere near as much radio frequency energy, so if you use a cell phone you can pretty much rest assured that everything else is not a concern.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tmorrowus @ Jun 9 2006, 10:45 PM) [snapback]269071[/snapback]</div>

Actually t's the AM radio. Todays transistorized version are a little bit better - but just think of the old days of tubes and valves !!! Every AM radio has an oscillator circuit in them - and AM station's signals are "compared" to that oscillator and the beat frequency is how the voice signal is extracted. In the old days - you see that in old WWII movies - when the bad Nazi in van try to find out where there is an illegal receiver in their basement - by monitoring the stray rf generated by the oscillator circuits of radios.

Also, every computer today uses a "switching power supply." Switching power supplies are very efficient - very high power density (watts per cubic volume). The way it works is for the 110AC to run a high frequency oscillator and coupled to a step up transfromer and then ratified. (High frequency coupling is much more efficient than 60hz coupling and use much smaller component.) So, every desktop computer to day has a very high power and high efficient RF generator..

.. then in the days (just recently) of CRT's, there is a very very high voltage oscillator in every one of them - flyback transformer which generates enormous rf energy - so much so that some kid at Caltech built a receiver a few years back which by receiving the rf signal generate by the CRT was able to replicate the display on another screen in the next room (yes.. the spy agencies were really really interest in that..) So, yes if you have a tube TV in your room, you are subjected to RF energy millions of time higher than your smart key fob!

.. and then there's the microwave oven.. don't even go there..

The cell phone especially the digital ones (almost all areas in the country have gone digital) only requires about 100 microwatts of RF to work. . . (old analog cell technology requires about 4 milliwatts.)

So, the moral of the story is that we are bathed in RF energy - 24x7 - since Marconi first put up his radio transmitter and unless you decide to live in a cave lined with aluminum foil and mu-metal, you all should really really stop worrying about it..

So, once and for all, fear mongers among us please note.. Electromagnetic fields, however strong does no harm to us. The MRI, CAT scan, PET scan machines delivers RF electromagnetic fields a few trillions times higher than anything you will experience in your daily lifes - enough to distort and make the atomic particles in the molecules of your body cells change spin and orientation - (yes thats how they work) and there has not been one case of these medical technologies causing cancer or other dreaded diseases..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yauman @ Jun 9 2006, 09:32 AM) [snapback]268638[/snapback]</div>

Actually, I think it's even less. I think the car only sends out a query when someone touches the inside of the door handle. Only then does the fob trandmit its ID. Or if you actively press a button on the fob, it sends out a signal. Then again, in the car, when you press the Power button, the car sends a query, and I believe that while you are driving it sends periodic queries. (Someone reported, as an experiment, tossing keys between two Priuses while running, and a warning came on that the key was not present.) Otherwise, the fob is merely listening.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(esetter @ Jun 8 2006, 10:06 AM) [snapback]267861[/snapback]</div>

I think we should worrry more about the the high level EMF coming from the 500 volt cables under the passenger compartment than the tiny frequency from the smart key.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jun 10 2006, 08:34 PM) [snapback]269347[/snapback]</div>

The query must be sent before you touch the handle. How would the lights come on as I approach the vehicle, before I touch it? I reckon the car sends out continous queries both on and off, so long as SKS is engaged, since it whines once the key is removed from the car while running.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yauman @ Jun 10 2006, 06:40 PM) [snapback]269327[/snapback]</div>

The oscillators in radio receivers don't put out very strong radio signals; they just to send the signal through circuit board traces directly into the comparison circuit. They don't have antennas or amplifiers to broadcast the oscillator signal, although just as a side effect they do broadcast some of the energy. If the oscillators were broadcasting a strong signal then wouldn't two AM radios nearby interfere with each other? The fact that they don't interfere with each other (much) indicates to me that the oscillators in AM radios don't send much radio energy into the air... it must be less than or on the same level as background AM radio signals broadcast from radio stations, which is a very low level unless you are very near the broadcast tower.

At any rate, one thing that experientially shows me how powerful cell phones are is the way they interfere with other consumer goods. If I have my mp3 player plugged into a car stereo and a cell phone is nearby, I hear very strong square wave sounds amplified through the stereo whenever the cell phone transmits. That means the cell phone is generating enough wasted energy in the audio band to interfere with the relatively high level headphone output signal from the mp3 player. I've noticed this phenomenom of cell phones interfering with hardwired audio signals several times in several places. I've never noticed that phenomenom with any other consumer device except cell phones (certainly never from the AM radio in my car).

I stand by the assertion that cell phones broadcast the most energy of any consumer device.

But there's no question that medical MRI scans produce many orders of magnitude more radio power than any consumer device, albeit for a relatively short time.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Three60guy @ Jun 9 2006, 10:12 PM) [snapback]268968[/snapback]</div>

Those big transmitters can be very dangerous...during lightning storms: pull your wooden stool to the middle of the room, sit there with your feet off the floor, and try not to touch anything until all of the glowing blue corona goes away.

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Jun 12 2006, 10:33 AM) [snapback]269999[/snapback]</div>

I have a picture in my mind's eye, in the style of R. Crumb, of some guy (probably Flaky Foont) sitting on top of a tall, wobbly three-legged stool, with his feet drawn up under him, hugging his knees to his chest, shaking and sweating enormous drops in fear as he watches the coronas hovering around all the metal knobs and the lightning flashes outside all around the tower. Perhaps Mr. Natural sits in a lotus position, calm and meditating, on top of the tower.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(esetter @ Jun 8 2006, 07:06 AM) [snapback]267861[/snapback]</div>

I got a PULSE peak reading of over 100 milliGauss from the smart key button on the door handle of my 07 prius, using a TRIFIELD meter. In comparison, the Sony CRT monitor I use everyday, read a STEADY 25 milliGauss on the surface of the glass in the center. It falls off to about 2.5 milliGauss at a distance of 18". I will test the key later and let you know.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Jun 10 2006, 11:32 PM) [snapback]269398[/snapback]</div>

1) The HV cable under you is ~220 Volts, the 500 Volts is generated in the inverter.
2) The HV cable is actually a double cable. The inner conductor is at 200 Volts but the outer shield is completely grounded, basically reducing any EMF from the cables to much lower than a conventional car.
3) The EMF generated is created by the current in the cable, not the terminal voltage of the battery.....and the reason the voltage is so high is to get the current as low as possible.

The really high powered RF pulses came from the non-electronic generation of cars with the primitive ignition system using points and Big capacitors (Condensers).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Jun 10 2006, 10:32 PM) [snapback]269398[/snapback]</div>

Could you please explain to me, an EE engineer, how a DC cable generates EMF? <_<

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyprius @ Jun 10 2006, 08:32 PM) [snapback]269398[/snapback]</div>

Actually it is about 240 Volts DC and the most it would do is slightly deflect a magnetic compass, if placed close enough.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ceric @ Aug 4 2007, 12:06 AM) [snapback]490422[/snapback]</div>

It's a miracle !! :lol:

 

I'm an ME (so I've done the EE-for-non-believers coursework...many moons ago!)...so help me with the milligauss units. What's a viable limit for exposure, etc.? Any other electronics to compare with, like an LCD screen (must be less, no 'oscillators' like in a CRT?)

Our new neighbors (well, we're the new one's on the block...) just got a Prius and he has a pacemaker. She was told by the dealer and we both read in the owner's manual (yes, hard to believe) that the smart key base antenna may affect pacemakers and to turn off the smart key system. It's not the actual FOB but inside the car that might affect the pacemaker.

Well, I'll admit i'm a bit out of my league here so I wanted to ask the doctors and EEs and other knowledgeable souls what she should worry about when he is riding in the Prius with her?

Just to be "safe" I showed her how to turn off the smart key. She was disappointed since the smart key is so nice, but was glad it was able to be turned off. Using the remote normally and inserting the 'key' is just so yesterday...

Thanks for any input!

 

yep, turning off the sks is recommended when people with pacemakers ride in the car. good call on showing them how to use that

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wrprice @ Jun 8 2006, 04:38 PM) [snapback]268213[/snapback]</div>

Well, actually it transmits when you unlock the car via the remote. On the bright side, it transmitts at less than 1/5 the power of a cell phone. Or, to put it in even MORE favorable terms, less than 1/25 of the power of hand held walkie talkies that have been around for over 5 decades. You get WAY more RF absorption standing near your shielded microwave while it's cooking your left overs.

 

Okay, great replies...but...how about once inside the car, driving down the road...the smart key base antenna must still be emitting RF, checking for the FOB, right? Otherwise, why would the car beep, when the FOB leaves the car, but the car is still on?

I think that is the crux of the Toyota warning in the owner's manual. Just how much RF is happening inside a Prius versus a non-hybrid? Keep the research up, I'm curious about the measured amounts and if one really can take their chances with pacemaker interference. YMMV, as in all of life.