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Green Testimonials

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Suburban600, Jun 9, 2007.

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  1. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zenMachine @ Jul 31 2007, 10:53 AM) [snapback]488069[/snapback]</div>
    Since you live in a warm climate, would it be worth it to install a sub roof on your garage and apply insulation between that and your bedroom? This may be more beneficial and cost effective than just insulating the garage door.
     
    #41 SSimon, Jul 31, 2007
  2. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Jul 31 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]488114[/snapback]</div>
    There may (or should) already be some insulation between the garage's ceiling (drywall) and the upstairs bedroom floor. I'll have to doublecheck the floorplan/blueprint to make sure.

    I hadn't thought about that, but it'd seem adding insulation to the garage's ceiling would be MORE expensive than insulating the door. And probably more labor-intensive too, no?
     
    #42 zenMachine, Jul 31, 2007
  3. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zenMachine @ Jul 31 2007, 12:09 PM) [snapback]488131[/snapback]</div>
    Seems likely, but as far as return on investment I think it would be more effective to insulation the ceiling above the garage. If the garage temp isn't regulated, it's going to get more warm in there even with the door insulated and that'll just warm your bedroom. It just seems that you should try to keep the heat out of your bedroom, rather than keep slightly less heat out of the garage. Just my speculation. Hopefully someone in the know will chime in.
     
    #43 SSimon, Jul 31, 2007
  4. skruse

    skruse Senior Member

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    In doing an energy efficiency retrofit of our house (1995) I gutted the garage to the studs and insulated the walls and ceiling to R-45, then covered the insulation with wall board and painted. No insects, spiders or dust. The garage is cooler in summer and warmer in winter. The insulated garage door completes the room and further reduces noise.

    You can insulate an uninsulated garage door with rigid foil-faced foam (ca. R-7.5 per inch). Cost is minimal and any "mistakes" can be fixed with duct tape.

    Normally, an uninsulated garage absorbs heat all day then reradiates the heat to the house interior. The pay back on all energy improvements, including the garage, was 2.5 years.
     
    #44 skruse, Jul 31, 2007
  5. Tadashi

    Tadashi Member

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    If it gets that hot in your garage you should not need to insulate it. Too bad you could not run water through your garage door to heat your water. :)
     
    #45 Tadashi, Jul 31, 2007
  6. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tadashi @ Jul 31 2007, 07:42 PM) [snapback]488403[/snapback]</div>
    Har har... :)

    Actually, the garage gets pretty cold in the winter. So insulating the water heater seems like a good idea. Besides, the material only costs like $20. What have I got to lose?
     
    #46 zenMachine, Aug 1, 2007
  7. stefan72

    stefan72 New Member

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    Hello,
    What I have done and what I am working on:
    -Go by foot/bicycle if possible
    -Try to optimize car usage and bundle shopping trips
    -Take a shorter shower
    -Switch off standby electrical equipment
    -Keep house temperature not above 20 degrees C
    -Recycle whereever possible
    -Reuse whereever possible
    -Reduce whereever feasible
    -Offsetting my carbon emmissions
    -try to bring up the subject with others and discuss environmental issues
    -promoting eco friendly vehicles http://ecocarforum.com
    -eating less meat
    -eating more local and organic produce


    Stefan72
     
    #47 stefan72, Aug 1, 2007
  8. Suburban600

    Suburban600 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05_SilverPri @ Jul 30 2007, 11:14 AM) [snapback]487430[/snapback]</div>
    O5_SilverPri, Thank-you for bringing this article to our attention.

    For those of you so inclined I recommend that you read the article referred to in 05_SilverPri's OP. However, be warned have a bed and or dictionary at the ready. This much reminded me of reading technical orders for aircraft...interesting reading but the ultimate sleeping aid.

    What follows is a very long post. Turn away now if you are either fatigued or unable to review concepts which conflict with your view of the world.

    The author of the article is Jesse H. Ausubel, from the Program for the Human Environment, The Rockefeller University. Ausubel starts his article by reviewing the historical treatment of heretics who challenged religious beliefs (the religious parallels surface again). In short heretics who challenged the established dogma were killed using the most unique and ultimate means. Hopefully no one here will run out and grab the pitchfork and torch and start driving their Prius toward New York.

    Ausubel enters into a world where my simple mind can only catch brief glimpses of intent, meaning and technical calculations. So, as I read the article, as usual, I skimmed to his bottom line. Below are quotes from his article. My comments are clearly marked.

    Ausubels bottom line on hydro power:
    “Imagine the entire province of Ontario, about 900,000 square km, collecting its entire 680,000 billion litres of rain, an average annual rainfall of about 0.8 m. Imagine collecting all that water, every drop, behind a dam of about 60 metres height. Doing so might inundate half the province, and thus win the support of the majority of Canadians, who resent the force of Ontario. This comprehensive ‘Ontario Hydro’ would produce about 11,000 MW or about four fifths the output of Canada’s 25 nuclear power stations, or about 0.012 watts per square metre or more than twice the USA average. In my ‘flood Ontario’ scenario, a square kilometre would provide the electricity for about 12 Canadians.â€

    Ausubel's bottom line on bio fuels:
    “The USA already consumes about ten and the world about 40 times the kilowatt hours that Iowa’s biomass could generate. Prime land has better uses, like feeding the hungry. Ploughing marginal lands would require ten or 20 times the expanse and increase erosion. One hundred twenty square metres of New Brunswick or Manitoba might electrify one square metre of New York City.â€

    Ausubel's bottom line on wind power:
    “To meet 2005 US electricity demand of about four million MWhr with around-the-clock-wind would have required wind farms covering over 780,000 square kilometres, about Texas plus Louisiana, or about 1.2 times the area of Alberta. Canada’s demand is about 10% of the USA and corresponds to about the area of New Brunswick.â€

    Ausubel's bottom line on solar power:
    “Present USA electric consumption would require 150,000 square kilometres (of PV panels) or a square almost 400 kilometres on each side. The PV industry now makes about 600 metres by 600 metres per year. About 600,000 times this amount would be needed to replace the 1000 MWe nuclear plant, but only a few square kilometres have ever been manufactured in total.â€

    Ausubel's summary:
    “While I have denominated power with land so far, solar and renewables, despite their sacrosanct status, cost the environment in other ways as well. The appropriate description for PVs comes from the song of the Rolling Stones, ‘Paint It Black’. Painting large areas with efficient, thus black, absorbers evokes dark 19th century visions of the land. I prefer colourful desert to a 150,000 km2 area painted black. Some of the efficient PVs contain nasty elements, such as cadmium. Wind farms irritate with low-frequency noise and thumps, blight landscapes, interfere with TV reception, and chop birds and bats. At the Altamont windfarm in California, the mills kill 40–60 golden eagles per year. Dams kill rivers.â€

    My comment: Ausubel presents realities with regard to energy sources. I think that I can safely say that any energy source has some sort of an environmental impact. Those of us seeking to mitigate our impact might look to this article as a reference as we select our options.

    With regard to nuclear power Ausubel contends that it has the least environmental impact. Perhaps. However, whether one is a policy maker or a homeowner one must contend with the realities of public opinion. The public will not likely embrace nuclear power because of fears of a Three Mile Island or Chernobyl event. Likewise a suburban neighbor, as we have seen, is not always so keen on embracing an alternative power source used by a neighbor (New Jersey Windmill) or say, a bit more extreme example, a home methane generator utilizing human waste. Perceptions, real or imagined, are a reality.

    Specifically addressing Ausubel's summary: With regard to PVs why not use rooftops? With regard to the nasty elements in PV's, I say recycle. With regard to wind farms...a good point. With regard to dams...a compelling argument.

    My bottom line: a successful energy future with less environmental impact is not likely monopolized by one source. Individuals should be open to understanding the strengths and weaknesses of each electrical production source. Folks who live off of the grid seem to have a necessity driven understanding of the fragility of relying on a single source of electricity. Often they use wind, solar and backup generator power. Like with a computer or aircraft redundancy and backups help provide a higher level of reliability.
     
    #48 Suburban600, Aug 3, 2007
  9. Suburban600

    Suburban600 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Jul 31 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]488041[/snapback]</div>
    Sorry I didn't make it clear. I was providing information on these coffee and tea sources from a transportation environmental impact perspective. Transporting coffee or tea from Asia, Africa or South America might have more transportation environmental impact that utilizing domestic sources. If interest in domestic sources was high enough I'm sure that the producers would be happy to embrace environmentally friendly agricultural methods.

    Also, as I've said with regard to carbon offsets, there is a satisfaction in visiting or owning a site which contributes to environmental improvements. Which is another attractive aspect of utilizing domestic sources whenever possible.
     
    #49 Suburban600, Aug 3, 2007
  10. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tadashi @ Jul 31 2007, 07:42 PM) [snapback]488403[/snapback]</div>
    I installed the garage door insulation today. I tested the before/after effect by placing a thermometer in one of the grooves. The reading went from 106F to 96F after installation. Not bad, not great. I suppose with an R-value of 7.5 you couldn't ask for more, especially on a hot day like today.

    The installation was super easy since mine is a standard sized garage door. The insulation material comes in 24" wide rolls, which requires no trimming to fit snugly inside the panels. One nice bonus is that the insulation has a sound dampening effect. The garage door is quite a bit quieter now than before.

    I also installed the water heater insulation. Not sure yet if it's made any difference. But the idea of channeling the heat from the garage door to heat the water is intriguing. Makes me wonder if there's a way to harness that heat to drive a small fan to circulate the garage air and blow it out of one of the windows. That would be cool.
     
    #50 zenMachine, Aug 13, 2007
  11. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zenMachine @ Aug 12 2007, 10:53 PM) [snapback]494532[/snapback]</div>
    There are solar powered fans out there that might work for you.
     
    #51 tripp, Aug 13, 2007
  12. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Aug 13 2007, 04:52 PM) [snapback]494984[/snapback]</div>
    Did a search. Found a bunch of solar powered attic fans which I thought would also be a good idea.
    Until I saw this article...

    http://www.advancedenergy.org/buildings/kn...entilation.html
     
    #52 zenMachine, Aug 14, 2007
  13. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    For the garage though I'd think you'd be alright (though your water heater is there, right?). If you just open the garage door a foot or so, you shouldn't have any of those nasty side effects mentioned in the article (which was interesting, BTW).
     
    #53 tripp, Aug 14, 2007
  14. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Suburban600 @ Aug 3 2007, 06:25 AM) [snapback]489879[/snapback]</div>
    His arguments seem a bit lame, really. Yes there are issues with every renewable (and using the tired and largely irrelevant Altamont wind farm example doesn't really help his case at all), but Nuclear's got plenty of baggage as well (c'mon. You can't talk about cadmium in PV panels when you're trying to trump Uranium). There's no silver bullet. Nuclear will play a part in reducing carbon foot prints. It can supply baseload power, which is something that solar and wind can't do very easily (at the moment). But Nuclear does suffer from some of the same issues as fossil fuels (namely, it ain't renewable, regardless of what dubya says). We'd have to import a lot of the feed stock. Also, Nuclear can use loads of water (especially, it cooling towers are involved). That's something that's often overlooked.

    Actually, looking back at his arguments against wind... they're really pretty lame. Some are simply subjective tastes (which blights the landscape more, a wind farm of a coal fired power plant?). No, wind isn't going to magically solve all of our problems, but it can make a pretty positive contribution. It increases land values and puts money in rural communities through royalties and taxes. He seems to completely miss the point on PV.

    I think that nuclear is going to be part of the compromise that we make with ourselves. It's not the best option. I think it's a better option than continuing to build coal fired plants. But it's the lesser of two weevils.
     
    #54 tripp, Aug 14, 2007
  15. gas guzzler

    gas guzzler New Member

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    I built a nuclear power plant in my back yard, they say that this the most efficient and less polluting source of energy. So far it's working great!
     
    #55 gas guzzler, Aug 14, 2007
  16. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Aug 14 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]495274[/snapback]</div>
    I can't crack open the garage door even a little bit; the mice will invade! I've had to plug all the holes just to keep them out. Oh well. Worth a thought nonetheless. Think I'll have better luck adding insulation to the garage ceiling instead. Either that or get a cat... :)
     
    #56 zenMachine, Aug 14, 2007
  17. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zenMachine @ Aug 14 2007, 02:13 PM) [snapback]495558[/snapback]</div>
    doh! Well, that's unfortunate. Good luck with it.
     
    #57 tripp, Aug 14, 2007
  18. mashuzu34

    mashuzu34 New Member

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    1. Ride public transportation to work, at least to/from the park and ride.
    2. Drive a Prius and a Jetta running on Biodiesel
    3. Installed high efficiency windows
    4. Promoting the adoption of plug-in hybrids by: 1)assisting with the translation of CalCars website into Japanese, and 2) the creation of some bumper stickers and a wiki.

    I'm generally opposed to bumper stickers, but I've attempted to produce them in a tasteful and humorous way. And all the profits go to CalCars, a non-profit established to promote plug-ins. So please check it out and consider joining in my effort to promote plug-ins:

    http://phev.wikispaces.com/

    Tks, Matt

    -------------------
    Green, the new Red, White and Blue
     
    #58 mashuzu34, Aug 15, 2007
  19. scargi01

    scargi01 Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Aug 14 2007, 03:25 AM) [snapback]495277[/snapback]</div>
    I think you are missing his point... That none of he "renewable" sources of power can come close to providing (either individually or in total) the power created by fossil fuels without a large, negative enviromental impact. Nuclear provides the most power for the least enviromental impact. The impact is not small, mind you, but it is smaller than anything else. And if you think wind turbins will increase the value of land, I want some of what your smokin'.
     
    #59 scargi01, Aug 15, 2007
  20. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    I have a tuck under garage as well.
    Insulation in the garage ceiling is key, esp. here in MN during the cold winter.
    One other thought, what color is the garage door? There is a huge difference in heat absorption by color as well as flat vs. semi gloss. A semi-gloss white would be highly recomended in your case.
     
    #60 Darwood, Aug 15, 2007
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