Just went to the Ford Regional Fuel Center in San Diego and attended a presentation on plug-in hybrids. they had a Prius there and were converting it into a plug-in. I got pics and took some notes. They used the hymotion battery kit. Very clean. They're doing it again tomorrow morning from 9 am - 11 pm for the "public". I.E. politicians will be there. Probably some media as well. Today was better.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 17 2007, 07:42 PM) [snapback]480567[/snapback]</div> did the actually do the conversion in front of you?
here I thought you were just a teacher, now we find out your an "inside mole" for Ford :lol: It wasn't your Prius by chance?
More or less. When we came in they were taking the lower cargo compartment out, the spare tire, the left side of the cargo area, the left side of the bumper was a little lose and the dash was off around the steering wheel. They had their tools out and the battery (65 kg) was on some sort of little crane sort of thing to lift it. They were doing that while we were being talked to by the guy from SDGE and then a guy from A123 systems that makes the Hymotion battery. They battery company is from Canada and the installation was being done by Pat's Garage, which does all of the installations in California. They're based in San Francisco. The plug in kit isn't available to consumers yet but should be in the first quarter of 2008. Cost will be roughly $10,000 for the 40 mile and $5,000 for the 20 mile. During the break they were moving the battery into the compartment and hooking up plugs. Then we were hearded into the auditorium for a powerpoint by SDGE on their cleaner transportation program. When that was done the EV switch was in the dash and the dash was together, the plug was in the bumper and the bumper was together and they were ready to put the cargo 'floor' back in the cargo area. Finished. They said it was about a two hour job. They'll be doing the other fleet vehicle tomorrow morning. I asked what they're going to do about a spare tire. They're going to have a can of foam stuff that basically fills up a flat tire with foam but ruins the tire. They haven't had any flats yet, all employees have cell phones and the vehicles are only used during business hours so they don't anticipate any flat tires so loosing the spare tire and lower cargo area aren't that big a deal. When I get a chance I'll post some pictures and some of the notes I took. BTW the guy from A123 has a 40 mile in his Prius and he commutes 56 miles to work. He said he averages 106 mpg.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 17 2007, 10:03 PM) [snapback]480645[/snapback]</div> looking forward to it <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 17 2007, 10:03 PM) [snapback]480645[/snapback]</div> thats amazing
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jul 17 2007, 08:57 PM) [snapback]480639[/snapback]</div> No such luck. They were both cars purchased by San Diego Gas and Electric. They are in a clean fuel study. Both fleet vehicles. One is in the pool and one is assigned. They're studying fuel economy. Now that they have data on hybrid they're converting to plug in to see about cost and fuel economy, etc. I don't know if they're getting the 20 or 40 mile extension battery. I do know their 2007s don't have the tire pressure sensors so they are probably package #1. The Regional Fuel Center isn't just Ford. Pearson Ford sponsors it. They had a red Prius on display as well as the SDGE car in the showroom. BTW they have a variety of alternative fuels available as well as the only ethanol pump in California. It's not getting much business. (I've also seen natural gas, propane and bio-diesel on the marquee.) Pearson Fuels The only thing that bothered me about their education program is it goes gas, hybrid, plug-in hybrid, fuel cell (I.E. hydrogen). I didn't want to get into how EV should be the next step
I saw something on CSPAN 2 about plug in hybrids. Actually there is more info and sort of a movement on: http://www.pluginamerica.com There are supposed to be many advantages including, theoretically, at least, the ability to sell electicity back to the city when not using it, as well as the ability to use this reserve energy to even out the electrical grid to make wind energy more useable. Sherry Boschert explained all this, but I haven't read the book, just heard her speak. Toyota made a limited edition RAV (I think) as a plug in (or maybe that was totally solar). Among other things I learned were that hydrogen is totally hype and is so far away--2016-1020?-- as to be vaporware. The car companies like it as it is so far away. Ms. Boschert made the comment that you could do this yourself, given knowledge of high voltage electronics. Google is a big promoter of electric. Even get a Prius and you can get a big chunk of change from them. (OF course they also have free gourmet meals, heated toilet seats and bidets, etc etc.) --des
That was mentioned briefly by the SDGE guy. He said they could put 4 million cars recharging on the grid at night during off peak hours and it wouldn't effect anything, just even out the grid. They call it balancing the grid. He said it's way, way in the future but in theory they might also be able to do things like draw the power back from the charging cars in an emergency, using them basically as battery storage. He said this would be very good because windmills generate best at night but that's off peak. He also said that as the hybrids are recycled their batteries could be bought and used for storage as well. He also said that he's meeting tomorrow with representatives from Toyota, GM and Honda and some sort of energy meeting. Didn't get much detail on that. Pictures and notes are going to have to wait. My parents are coming tomorrow with a chainsaw and a chipper/shredder to help me take down a bougainvilla in preparation for my new driveway which is happening a lot quicker than I anticipated. Like....Thursday instead of Sunday. AND the landscape guy is coming over tomorrow at the same time to look at the house and give me a bid on painting it. And I have to go to Urban Seed and Flower to see if I can find a groundcover to plant in the Drivable Grass mat that will be green but I won't have to mow. So....after all of that I'll see if I have time. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(des101 @ Jul 17 2007, 11:41 PM) [snapback]480723[/snapback]</div> They made an EV Rav4. Darelldd has one. Yes, it plugs in. And Darrell has Photovoltaic. (I'm getting my PV system installed Aug. 6)
Yes, it would aid efficiency-- it is wouldn't really change how much energy is available. But the *price* of energy might improve (of course we are talking maybe 2015+ prices?) In the case of wind it's different. Wind energy is much more highly irregular in terms of how much is produced. I am in a high wind energy state. I'm guessing this is the only kind of place this would help, but we could run everything in our state on wind, given the right efficiency. You could also end up with a totally non-carbon power economy that way. I mean theoretically. She also talked about the battery storage. She was talking of batteries that have been used only about 20%. Not sure how realistic that is. Aren't most cars just driven til they die (maybe not by the original owner) ?? I suppose some are totaled. She also talked about trucks. You take a truck, make it a plug-in and use it for emergency power in a hurricane or something. This would be city trucks, say. You sound like your from the Southwest. Here we don't do grass (I mean majority), the common "front lawn" is scrub grass and little rocks. Some people xeroscape with natural rock and local plants (maybe 2-3 years from now?). --des <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 18 2007, 01:13 AM) [snapback]480733[/snapback]</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 17 2007, 07:03 PM) [snapback]480645[/snapback]</div> Are those official prices? $5,000 sounds pretty good to me.. My commute is only 15 miles each way, so a 20 mile pack would be great.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mr. Zorg @ Jul 18 2007, 01:06 AM) [snapback]480752[/snapback]</div> No, they're estimates of price as is the availability time. He estimates first quarter 2008. They want to make sure they've done all of their testing and can offer a safe warranty. They're looking at offering a bumper to bumper warranty through a third party because doing this will void the Toyota warranty. Even though this shouldn't effect the car, they want to offer a warranty in place of the OEM one. Do you plan on plugging in at work? BTW he talked about traveling with his Prius. He'd ask the hotel clerk for a room on the ground floor close to his parking space. Then he runs a long extension cord out the window to the car. Practical for Motel 6. Not very if you're at the Hilton.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(des101 @ Jul 17 2007, 09:41 PM) [snapback]480723[/snapback]</div> I'm surprised that Darell hasn't chimed in. The RAV4 was an actual electric vehicle (EV). It ran purely on batteries - no engine at all, and it was a production vehicle. Toyota chose to stop making them, recall them, and most of them have been destroyed. Here is Darell's web page about his RAV4 EV.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 18 2007, 01:13 AM) [snapback]480733[/snapback]</div> Less than a month! Dang! Ok, I'm green now (not the earth friendly kind, either) ... hope you're happy! Wish I'd of known they were down in S.D. yesterday / seen the first thread sooner ... I'd have run down their w/ $10K in hand to see if they'd do mine. Isn't their business located in CO? A bit of a drive, if it's the same company I've been reading about. Edit: Oh wait ... that was hybrid plus in CO .... these guys are from Canada I think.
Where are the pics? Did they talk about what driving styles helped or hurt. Did they have an idea of what mpg would be like for some who does short trips/in town driving? How many miles does the highest milage conversion car have on it?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 17 2007, 11:48 PM) [snapback]480762[/snapback]</div> Possibly. But there are some stretches of my commute where I can't safely avoid going over the EV speed limit, so after subtracting those out, I figure a 20 mile EV range ought to be just about enough to cover my round trip. It should make a significant boost on my mileage. At $5,000 I might well do it. At $10,000? No...
