Why driving a Prius is really not enough

Current industrial agriculture is not sustainable in the long term. It uses a disproportionate amount of water, oil (fertilizer and chemicals) and energy for production and transportation. Meat eating is undeniably more energy intensive than eating fruit and veggies. Fish are increasingly being over-utilized and many populations are in peril of collapsing (see lead article in todays Wall Street Journal - hardly a tree-hugger's paper!).

The problem is too many rich folk - and the richer they get, the more meat and fish they eat. The solution - reduce the population of rich people.

We're working on it!

Mike

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rae Vynn @ Jul 18 2007, 12:36 PM) [snapback]480953[/snapback]</div>

You haven't gotten much of a hearing here, but FWIW:

Most people just don't get it. The impact of diet just doesn't register. In a clearly doomed attempt to increase awareness, I'll present the arithmetic. For the average guy eating 2800 calories a day, with 10 fossil-fuel calories required to produce each edible calorie (roughly the US average, though there is some uncertainty in that figure), that works out to about 330 gallons of gasoline (equivalent) required to produce your annual food intake. More if you barbeque a lot. Or, if you will, about the same as driving your Prius 16,000 miles or so. So, yes, diet is a big deal in terms of enviromental impact. As big as your car.

When I did an estimated carbon budget for my family, food was the #1 item in terms of fossil fuel consumption. Bigger than gasoline, electricity, or natural gas. Precisely because it takes a lot of fossil fuel calories to produce one edible calorie in the typical US diet, with grain-fed beef being the worst offender. My interim solution was to buy locally-raised grass-fed beef. Maybe not the optimal solution but at least a major improvement in terms of total fossil fuel consumption. The animals actually get to live a normal life before slaughter, which is some improvement, I guess.

For the same reason, I used to say I got about 66 gasoline-mpg-equivalent on my bicycle. That's the value of the edible calories per mile, times the fossil fuel multiplier for the fossil fuel required to produce the edible calories. That's at the US average 10 fossil-fuel calories per edible calories. Presumably my mileage is better now. But the point is that once you acknowledge the fossil fuels required for food production, you realize that human-powered transport is only marginally more efficient than a Prius, at the US average dietary mix. Lot of health benefits, but the energy required for human-powered transport is not free of fossil fuels.

Finally, I think it's worth mentioning that epidemiological studies show vegans live an average of seven years longer than ominvores, vegetarians live about 3.5 years longer. At least that's what I've read, all other things equal, or as equal as you can hold them in studies of that type. For reference, the average impact of smoking is estimated to be in the neighborhood of 8 years of life. So it's odd that a lot of educated people who wouldn't dream of smoking think nothing of eating animal products. I do, but at least I acknowledge the inconsistency.

So I don't necessarily get the animal-rights issues, although I find the animal cruelty issues in some cases to be stomach-churning enough that I just don't buy certain products any more. But even putting those aside, there are plenty of sound reasons to be more mindful about diet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rae Vynn @ Jul 18 2007, 02:45 PM) [snapback]481133[/snapback]</div>

I'll see if I can find some facts to substantiate, but Rae Vynn isn't as far off as you think she is. Go to the store and check to see what percentage of meat is imported. You may be surprised/shocked to discover the answer.

Our go-go-go American lifestyle requires cheap and easily/quickly prepped food. Americans consume a diet more protein-heavy than other 'civilized' countries. Meat in general (and beef in particular) is, seemingly, the perfect solution to those needs...whether it's bad for us or not.

I think comments like, "for every animal you don't eat, I'll eat three" or "if we're not supposed to eat animals, how come God made them out of meat?" Are really sophomoric and trite. What's the use in suggesting that you'll purposely counter someone's action by doing the opposite? It's a waste of energy, it's lame, and pointless, too.

If you want to eat meat, eat meat. If you don't, don't. But --unless you're actually threatened and won't admit it to yourself or others-- don't attack those who wish to try something different. Why is one's wish to be a vegan or vegetarian a point of conflict?

To all the meat lovers out there: don't worry, your lobbyists are in Washington right now, protecting your right to consume and be poisoned by cheap animal products. They're very powerful and well funded, too, so those left wing hippie hairy-legged folks won't be able to mess with your 'top of the food pyramid' lifestyle. I'll continue paying my insurance premiums, so you'll be able to get that double bypass.

And, *yes* what you *choose* to eat IS a lifestyle ---much more so that some assert that "being gay" is a choice.

So, all you Conservative Christian Carnivores out there: I'll give up sleeping with women sometimes, if you'll give up eating meat. Interested in taking me up on this?

No?
[laughing]

Of course not.

What to me is a lifestyle choice (what food you choose to put into your body) is ---to you--- an expression of who you are and what satisfies you, and your rights as an individual.

What right does *anyone* have to dictate these things to another?

None.

So, I'll let you eat your animal products, and you can let me sleep with other women sometimes?

'Kay?

'Kay.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jul 18 2007, 03:03 PM) [snapback]481149[/snapback]</div>

If not a cause of destruction in Argentina, it's certainly a cause for destruction on a broad scale.

"1.3 Agriculture - Cash Crops and Cattle Ranching

Undisturbed and logged rainforest areas are being totally cleared to provide land for food crops, tree plantations or for grazing cattle (Colchester & Lohmann). Much of this produce is exported to rich industrialised countries and in many cases, crops are grown for export while the local populace goes hungry.

Due to the delicate nature of rainforest soil and the destructive nature of present day agricultural practices, the productivity of cash crops grown on rainforest soils declines rapidly after a few years.

Monoculture plantations - those that produce only one species of tree or one type of food - on rainforest soil are examples of non-sustainable agriculture.

They are referred to as cash crops because the main reason for their planting is to make money quickly, with little concern about the environmental damage that they are causing.

Modern machinery, fertilisers and pesticides are used to maximise profits. The land is farmed intensively. In many cases, cattle damage the land to such an extent that it is of no use to cattle ranchers any more, and they move on, destroying more and more rainforest. Not only have the forests been destroyed but the land is exploited, stripped of nutrients and left barren, sustaining no-one.

Solutions:"Reducing the demand for Southern-produced agribusiness crops and alleviating the pressure from externally-financed development projects and assistance is the essential first step" (Colchester and Lohmann)."

And then there's this.......

"During the 1980s, about 16.9 million hectares of tropical rainforest was cut down and replaced with farms and grazing land for cattle." (Forest Alliance of British Columbia, 1996)

Full link below.

http://www.davesite.com/rainforests/review4.shtml

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jul 18 2007, 02:41 PM) [snapback]481067[/snapback]</div>

Well, we are talking about eating vegetables, right?

 

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rae Vynn @ Jul 18 2007, 11:36 AM) [snapback]480953[/snapback]</div>

you are dumb.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(not another screenname @ Jul 18 2007, 05:34 PM) [snapback]481257[/snapback]</div>

Rather, she's enlightened. People just don't want to accept the message as they wish not to sacrifice. This is fine, as that's their entitlement. But the fact that you're calling her dumb leads me to believe that you've no knowledge of the ramifications to our environment when subsisting on a meat laden diet. Or maybe you just don't care. I have different descriptive words suited for you in either case.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jul 18 2007, 03:30 PM) [snapback]481172[/snapback]</div>

For the record, I support people's rights to eat meat and for women to sleep with other women...!

 

Animals have a right to life too, just like you,and animals are beautiful and do nothing but love you, even the cows. How would you like to be sliced and cut up alive, and scream in agony. By the way vegan food tastes much better than fat, gristle, hairs, sweat, and blood.

Mary

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chogan @ Jul 18 2007, 02:56 PM) [snapback]481139[/snapback]</div>

Congratulations, I've been lurking on and off on Priuschat for months, but now I finally have a question to ask and ironically, it has nothing to do with Prii.

Where does this 10 Fossil-fuel calories come from? I've not heard this figure before.

Anyways, thanks for giving me an excuse to sign up.

 

Well, if driving a Prius (or two in my car) is not enough we got PV and water solar panels. Not sure I can give up meat - fish and shellfish in particular. Although I think moderation is the key not going cold turkey vegan.

I thought I saw on the Discovery or National Geographic channel that mean was responsible for the formation of our brains. Something about being protein rich with fatty acids and other stuff that vegetables could not offer. I think it also said vegetarian diets unless done properly can be detrimental to children without vitamin supplements.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(just_marci @ Jul 18 2007, 02:23 PM) [snapback]481217[/snapback]</div>

Quite delicious dark meat humor Marci!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Jul 18 2007, 05:51 PM) [snapback]481263[/snapback]</div>

Whatever dude or dudette

I would hardly call it "enlightenment"

 

Thank you for detailing out the seemingly unlimited reasons for being vegetarian. After 40 years of my carelessly eating just whatever tasted good (mostly BBQ), I am now and forever more (hopefully) a vegetarian. I actually stopped eating meat a few days ago because my 6 yr old daughter has been a vegetarian for over a month and would complain of how little support she gets. I finally realized that I should "be the bigger person" and not just follow in her footsteps, but try to lead by example. I always knew eating the meat was bad, I just "didn't think about it" and I continued to mindlessly satisfy my cravings. Now My wife (who's going along with this) & I will both try finding vegetarian meals that our family can eat together, making it a whole lot easier for our daughter to "do the right thing", since she was so good to choose it. Becoming vegan seems too extreme for now, but who knows, maybe that soon too.

We also own a Prius and after 2 years, 25k miles... absolutely love it! My wife can't wait until we can afford to replace her Subaru Legacy with one. I can't wait to convert mine to a plug-in. In some way I think it was Prius ownership that helped convert me, it just gets you thinking more...

Thanks again for the support & logical reasoning.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jdl1787 @ Jul 19 2007, 01:45 AM) [snapback]481463[/snapback]</div>

Is this satire?
did you mean 16 year old daughter?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(not another screenname @ Jul 18 2007, 06:34 PM) [snapback]481257[/snapback]</div>

Who is more dumb, the person who posts such a story, or the person who can't figure out how to partially quote an original post and thus quotes multiple paragraphs in order to post a three word reply with no real substantive argument of any kind to prove their position?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tadashi @ Jul 18 2007, 11:45 PM) [snapback]481409[/snapback]</div>

I been a vegetarian for at least 20 years and rarely intake dairy. I had the same concerns as you're noting above, so I made sure to fully research my diet when I decided to make the transition. The only thing lacking that's not supplied by a vegan diet is vitamin B12. For this you have to take a supplement and even that doesn't ensure the proper uptake as as one ages, their ability to absorb this vitamin can become diminished. That's why you'll see some elderly taking shots for it. However, I also know that fatty acids can be hard to come by in this diet. Even flax seed isn't a true omega, it has to be converted by the body and then the body needs to uptake it properly.

So I would probably have the same concerns as you do if I had children and if they decided they didn't want to eat meat. I guess we can just look towards the evidence and see that children in other cultures can incorporate this diet and become healthy, long lived adults by looking. But I'm with you, I do like to know how my diet affects my body and I would be even more so concerned with a developing body.

The even scarier thing is that we could eat a completely nutritious, healthy diet and still not get the correct nutrients as the body isn't being cooperative with absorption.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jdl1787 @ Jul 19 2007, 01:45 AM) [snapback]481463[/snapback]</div>

Please research this diet to ensure that she (and you) are getting all the proper nutrients. Vitamin b12 is lacking in this diet. You just aren't going to get this vitamin without eating meat. And a person can have a deficiency and the symptoms wouldn't manifest until damage is done. So, buy a supplement. I've read that this vitamin is best absorbed under the tongue (they sell ones specifically for this purpose), as it is better absorbed by the capillaries under the tongue. And, better research your protein options as we often have to eat various kinds of food in the same day to ensure a complete protein.

There are plenty of world class athletes that incorporate this diet, so you can be healthy (even healthier) than if you continued your meat laden diet. I wonder if you're going to miss your meat, however?!?!?!