What services you need and what you don't

So, it sounds like we have a CVT in there somewhere. Maybe a CVT+, but still a CVT with friction elements that are in turn throwing off little bits of metal particles during a break-in process.

I am really not trying to be in anyone's face about this, and my apologies in advance if I am offending anyone, but it really seems as if there is a CVT in the HSD.

 

The light bulb is about to go on. The CVT element is the motor to the left of the chain. By varying the speed of that motor/generator, the transmission ratio from the engine output to the wheels is set. There are NO mechanical CVT elements (pulleys, variable gears, etc.). VERY critical to understanding why this is so long lived is that there are no sliding elements (like pistons in cylinders) to grind metal, everything is a "rolling" type friction. Keep studying, this is fun stuff (at least for me).

 

FL_Prius, the only lab I know of so far for trans fluid is the one where Bob Wilson has sent samples. PdMA in Tampa FL. Just down the road?

The magnet is not on the draining bolt, but elsewhere in the pan. IIRC even the new model Prius still has the magnet, but there is no longer a removable pan.

For most complete trans fluid service of NHW11 Prius, buy also the sump gasket so that the pan can be completely removed and inspected and wiped clean.

As to whether Toyota suggests a fluid change, why just today in Prius Online, someone from Canada quoted some official servicing document saying trans fluid changes (NHW20) on 100 000 km intervals. It would not be unheard of for Canada to get 'out in front' on maintenance issues. Only there it seems is it officially recognized that extensive soot on the throttle butterfly can cause the 'slow start/no start' DTC.

 

Thanks for the info. Probably a 1.2 gallon drive in my Prius. I thought it would be hard to retain the oil, yet check the magnet if it were on the plug. Retaining the oil while removing the pan is out of my league. The '01 is still about 40k away from the next change, so I have time to plan. Need to remember sump gasket.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Jul 1 2007, 03:36 PM) [snapback]471163[/snapback]</div>

No need to apologize because most of us are not offended if you are determined to ascribe to wrong beliefs on this particular subject. I am only posting accurate factual information to assure that others are aware that you are spreading misinformation.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Jul 2 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]471636[/snapback]</div>

Well, where are the wrong beliefs? There is some way of converting energy to forward or reverse movement. Whether you agree with my contention that a CVT-type of approach is what is actually occurring is a point of debate. While we are on the topic of a CVT, I would submit the following URL for your consideration:

http://www.toyota.com/prius/specs.html Go to the transmission section, and low and behold, direct from the manufacturer: "Electronically controlled continuously variable transmission (ECVT)"

Reaching a conclusion that I am spreading misinformation is not supported by the posts that I have made.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Jul 2 2007, 12:35 PM) [snapback]471685[/snapback]</div>

You are the one who has disregarded all the technical information which was posted by others to explain how the Prius' "transmission" works.

It is a waste of everyone's time to continue this dialog with you. Good bye.

For everyone else, here is an explanation of the difference between the Prius power splitting device and a conventional CVT:

 

Apriusfan - I have not forgotten that your original post was a very welcome question about the idea of changing the transmission fluid at a short initial interval. Somehow this got sidetracked, so let's return to being helpful.

The overwhelming evidence presented by those that backup their experience is that Toyota (Japan) is over optimistic claiming no changes needed (60k, 600k?). The vast majority would agree that 60k miles seems to be the most sensible interval and I have yet to see a presentation of evidence to the contrary, but cyberspace is large and my time less so. I have had this changeout some time ago and think that it was money well spent. What I did not do is specify what fluid to use as replacement. This is what I know now to specify next time.

The Prius ECVT is an fasinating implementation of a motor driven, planetary gear transmission. Imagine being told by a repair shop that the clutch needs to be replaced You already know that's probably not quite right.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FL_Prius_Driver @ Jul 2 2007, 08:16 PM) [snapback]472026[/snapback]</div>

Yes, I was starting to wonder if I had mis-posted to a thread that was debating whether the Prius CVT was or was not a true CVT....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FL_Prius_Driver @ Jul 2 2007, 08:16 PM) [snapback]472026[/snapback]</div>

Out of curiosity, are you referring to a replacement fluid other than the Type WS fluid?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FL_Prius_Driver @ Jul 2 2007, 08:16 PM) [snapback]472026[/snapback]</div>

I think the ECVT is just one of a number of very innovative bits to be found on the Prius. In the interest of information sharing, I will try to remember to post a used oil analysis when I swap out the CVT fluid.

 

No question that the Prius is a full CVT. It's just that the Prius implementation is total departure from the early CVTs that had a lot mechanical action using variable width pullies or other mechanical/fluid mechanisms.

Yes, most definitely something better than WS. "hobbit" (who is on a Prius knowledge level higher than me by many levels), specifically mentions a new long life coolant. So I need to do my homework to find out if this applies or not when the time comes. [Make sure you go to his "Declare your independence!" thread, but you probably have anyway.]

A great many appreciate any hard data you can provide. Everyone benefits (even IsrAmeriPrius).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 3 2007, 05:27 PM) [snapback]472626[/snapback]</div>

Frankly, whether the Prius transmission is or is not a true CVT is of minor concern to me. As FL_Prius_Driver noted, I had asked about an early initial fluid replacement. It will be interesting (at least to me) to see the results of a used oil analysis on the transmission fluid. I have contacted Blackstone and they confirmed that they do in fact perform analysis of transmission fluid. When my Prius reaches the 5,000 mile mark, I am going to send a sample in for analysis.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 3 2007, 07:49 PM) [snapback]472703[/snapback]</div>

You are right - when I replied to your post, I skimmed your response. My apologies.

To avoid any claim of misinformation, I posted my original question based on personal experience that anytime there is metal-to-metal contact, there will be a process where during an initial running-in period, metal particles are thrown off as the metal parts wear together (even in the presence of lubricating fluid). The question was whether to remove the thrown-off metal particles by doing an initial drain and fill of the transmission fluid at say, 5,000 miles. Hopefully, I am paraphrasing you correctly, galaxee: You responded that provided the drain and fill was done correctly, there would be no problems but you didn't think the risk from the suspended metal particles was high enough to justify the additional maintenance effort or cost. And that is kind of where we are at presently. In an effort to provide further data upon which a reader could hopefully make a somewhat more informed decision, I am going to post the results of the analysis of the transmission fluid when I have it replaced. This will probably be around the next 3 - 4 months, based on my present driving pattern. So, for those who are interested, please check back in around the next 3 - 4 months.

 

Hi
I just bought a used 2005 and it is coming up on 30k miles. One of the local Toyota service depts said I needed an air induction service as part of the service and the other one didn't mention it. What is it and do I need it at 30K? I had an oil change at 28K before it left the CarMax lot. Can the rest of the service (tire rotations, air filters) just wait till the next oil change or are there warranty ramifications to going over 30K without having the service done? Thanks for your expert opinion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(msteri @ Jul 5 2007, 12:33 PM) [snapback]473503[/snapback]</div>

1) I've never heard of an "air induction service", but I sure would like to know since my '01 Prius has not had it done (at least by that name). I can say factually that if you go to Toyota's official web site for service (http://smg.toyotapartsandservice.com/index.php) there are only the items you mentioned. Additionally I have all the service manuals and nothing in them is called "air induction service". Hence my curiosity. The answer may help identify which is the better dealer.

2) You can easily check the air filters in under 2 minutes or replace them in 2 minutes. Lots of help here if you want it.

3) There are no warranty ramifications for waiting on the air filter replacements till the next oil change if you are taking care of your car (i.e. there are no check engine or other warning lights on)

 

Well, maybe throttle-body cleaning falls under that moniker, which
*is* a useful thing to do, but it shouldn't be needed all that often.
.
_H*

 

Mary