Headlight Out

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(comtech5 @ Jun 30 2007, 06:59 AM) [snapback]470545[/snapback]</div>

You may not be correct in this case. There have been a number of these failures which have been traced to the HID ECU.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Phish Phood @ Jul 11 2007, 06:30 PM) [snapback]477141[/snapback]</div>

New headlights fixed the problem, but the morons pointed the headlights in two different directions.....

When I went in to pay my bill....I dropped a big (quart) jar of vasiline on the counter and told them to give this to the next prius owner with bad headlights....

And I got off easy, they did it for 1 hour's labor, when the book calls for two hours per headlight.... (for a $285 savings)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 10 2007, 10:05 PM) [snapback]476538[/snapback]</div>

Ok, your signature line says it all. You're a toyota tech. I was going to ask exactly what division of Toyota you actually worked for.

No-one goes out and checks the replacement cost of parts when they buy a car, it comes down to if Toyota knew this was an issue they had a duty to inform the buyers before the transaction.

I'm filing a complaint with the NHTSA, and I advise everyone else who has this problem to do so as well. It is a serious safety concern, especially since, more often than not, it affects both headlights at once. Since headlights are safety equipment, enough complaints and the NHTSA will force Toyota into a recall.

 

Netbeast and Phishfood,

I feel your pain, as I may have been the first to post about this (now evidently quite common) Prius HID headlight problem, about a year or so ago, in this thread here:

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=26169&hl=

You'll find a lot of information about the Toyota HID headlight issue in that thread, and you will also find some PriusChat members back then were very unsympathetic to our experiences and observations, which we had no motivation to invent.

I don't believe you will have much luck assembling a critical mass of enough Prius owners to help rally for your cause, because until it actually happens to THEM, the HID headlight problem doesn't exist, and it's all YOUR fault. You should have known better, tsk tsk, for buying a Prius with HID lamps in the first place. Shame on you! (Tongue in cheek, trying not to barf).

Fortunately for us, it happened early enough that we caught it, and now only use the headlights when it is absolutely necessary. We had to have both headlights replaced. The dealer also replaced both ballasts, but looking back, and reading of other folks issues, I now wonder if just replacing the HID lamps would have sufficed.

I think the service troubleshooting tree calls for "HID computer" replacement first under certain testing circumstances (ie, the bulb still works, just not all the time) as part of the diagnostics flowchart, and that could be why the cost is so high ($1,500 plus) to replace the HID lights (computer module and lamp assembly, labor). If forced to pay out of your own pocket, I would recommend just trying the bulb first.

Since we "had" (according to the dealer) to have everything replaced, we do not use the HIDs as "daytime running lights" and we do not leave the headlight switch "on" all the time, even though the car would automatically operate the headlights if we did. In fact, we use the lights as little as possible, and try to only drive during the day. Just the type of utility we expected from a car that cost over $32,000.

The package 8 was the only model that became available at the beginning of 2006 when we needed a new car, wanted the Prius, and the lines and waits were long and hard to get a Prius of any type.

I haven't heard of the HID's in Lexus models having this issue, but then again, we didn't have the extra $20,000 to $50,000 more to spend on the Lexus.

Currently there are 62,000 miles on our Prius. Apart from the headlights, we have also experienced the popular transaxle leak (driver's side output shaft seal) at around 10K, and have had three check engine lights (cylinders 3 misfire, cylinder 4 misfire).

We are not "negative" on this car, we are just disappointed with these basic problems from Toyota. Headlights working for a reasonable amount of time seems basic. Cylinders misfiring at 20K miles? Axle leaks at 10K miles. Again basic. We were more worried about issues with the Hybrid technology, but none have surfaced so far.

On the bright side, we have averaged between 52 and 61 mpg, depending on the state we are driving in (one state we frequent has generally lower speed limits than our home state).

Good luck!




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nettbeast @ Jul 13 2007, 05:02 AM) [snapback]478019[/snapback]</div>

 

Well if anyone cares here is my update.
I left my care overnight so they could get an early start. All the parts were ordered. Headlight and the HID control unit. So they get the bumper and grill and headlight off get ready to put it all back together and the gasket that originally caused the leak wasn't included in the new kit they ordered even though the service manual said it should be. So it being Friday and me needing my car for the weekend and no loaner. They had to put it all back together and wait till monday for a 50 cent part to arrive and start over.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AlphaTeam @ Jul 14 2007, 11:19 AM) [snapback]478639[/snapback]</div>

I would have just told them that since it's their problem they should provide you with a loaner for the weekend and been done with it. That way you could have just picked it up on your way to work Monday morning.

At least it's fixed, that's the most important part.

Now we'll work on extracting our pound of flesh from the evildoers at Toyota. ;-)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nettbeast @ Jul 14 2007, 11:59 AM) [snapback]478658[/snapback]</div>

Well it is not fixed just yet. I'm actually not that mad. I fix computers similar things happen to me. So I understand. We are slow at work right now so it is no big deal. I'm just happy it will be fixed....well hopefully fixed.

 

if anyone here thinks that our posts here are in any way representative of toyota, well, you're so far off the mark that you're not even on the same continent.

just wanted to make that clear.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 14 2007, 03:38 PM) [snapback]478718[/snapback]</div>

It's natural to "stick-up" for the company that pays your rent, even if you know what they're doing is wrong.

So even the technicians and sales-person who sold me the car said that if they are dying out as regularly as it seems, then there definitely should be a recall.

I'll be curious to see. I got my car back with the headlights (supposedly) properly aimed. I say supposedly because until I get them out on the road at night I can't tell the difference.

I'm worried that this is only the start though - and that each is going to be more expensive than the last.

I thought it was even more funny though that the local Toyota dealership has a thrifty car rental on site that they use for loaner vehicles... Thrifty rents Dodge/Chrysler products. The Charger I drove was *NICE*.

;-)

 

My headlight was pink. They want $392 for the bulb or $446 for the "computer" that tells the $392 bulb "ON or OFF".

You won't see me hold up a sign saying "YES".

 

$392 + $446 = $838
$838 + 8.5% sales tax = $909.23 for just ONE headlight.

And does this include labor?

People thought I was exaggerating, or crazy, or trolling, or that my dealer was shanking me when I reported over a year ago that it costs $2,000 to replace the Prius HID headlamps on both sides.

The only consolation is the relief to see that I wasn't being lied to by my dealer.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nettbeast @ Jul 14 2007, 06:37 PM) [snapback]478781[/snapback]</div>

oh... HELL no. right there, is where you crossed the line for me. i don't appreciate that comment one bit.

you don't know me and you don't know my husband. i suggest you go and read some of my/our 6500+ post history in the technical and troubleshooting forums. my husband has the most integrity at the greatest personal sacrifice of anyone on these forums, period. and the INSTANT someone attacks it, my evil side is bound to come out because we SUFFER for his uncompromising integrity.

he's not afraid to comment on the failures of toyota. but he's also not afraid to comment on FACTS... like how using your HIDs as DRLs isn't going to do much for the life of your lights. that's why toyota did not offer HIDs up in canada where DRL is required, and why DRLs are not offered down here in the US where they have HID options.

oh and you might care to know that toyota is not his employer. he is employed by a dealership who contracts with toyota to buy and resell their cars, and access their service network. he makes his money off of toyota's design failures. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Annoying One @ Jun 29 2007, 07:14 AM) [snapback]469999[/snapback]</div>

7/14/07 Update:

About a week ago (Thursday 7/5) the ds HID went off, since I happened to be near the dealership drove there and one of the service managers witnessed the HID being off and also witnessed the lights being switched off and on again and the ds HID turning on but not with full brightness. Although it was near closing time he called his Prius Tech and they discussed replacing the HID, unfortunately they did not have one in stock.

Turning off and on the lights one more time restored the ds HID to normal brightness and for a week I had no problems with it.

Yesterday (7/13) it happened again but by the time I finished what I was doing and drove to the dealer the ds HID was operating again.

This time my regular service advisor wrote a RO and his Prius team leader started checking it but since he could not make it fail there was not much he could do.

Just to be on the safe side they ordered an HID and the corresponding ECU and we agreed that I should monitor the behavior and when it happens again I should call it in and setup an appointment to at least replace the HID.

The HID issue is NOT a common happening and Toyota has no record of a repeat occurrence of this issue. Even if it has happened to a handful of Prii, the number of failures does not qualify the issue as a basis for a TSB or a recall.

Failures, especially on high stress components, happen and it is better to address these issues with calm and not with direct attacks (Post #49).

P.S: Galaxee and DH are among the most sincere PC members and I consider it a personal attack when their integrity is questioned. :angry:

P.S2: How many instances of this "event" are we talking here? single, two or three digit? Guess it is time for a poll .

7/15/07 update

Did it again tonight - got a picture of the car and will show it to the dealer tomorrow morning

 

I have seen more people complain about the headlight issue than that steering issue there was an actual recall for.

 

Posts in the both Prius forums (here and PriusOnline) go crazy sometimes Anywho, back to the point.

Got a call back from Toyota CS Corporate.. blah blah, my request for Toyota to foot the bill for the headlights is beining forwarded to the district manager blah blah and they will decide.

The CS person tells me the issue will soon be posted as a bulletin on the Toyota-side tech forums (yay?). And he's even the one telling me it wasn't the headlights.. something about the computers not controlling the amount of voltage going to the HIDs and causing it to overheat (and turn off) and thus killing the life of the bulb on top of it (which is why perhaps, even after the ECUs are fixed, people are still having issues)?

The mystery to me is the one person that has had the ECUs/headlamps changed out and is still having the issue, rather peculiar.

Anywho, I don't see the significance of "Wear and tear" as although I had 45k miles when the issue started, I'm a day commuter (drive to work, and go home, thats 95% of my travel). I may have the headlights on for max 30 minutes per day, and don't have them on if its past sunrise or before sunset. Summer as it is right now, I'm on the road with the sun up, and home before headlights are needed. I don't flick with them or play with them.. and these lasted less than the halogen bulbs in my sister's Camry that was doing the drive (heck, she still hasn't changed her headlights and it was doing the same drive for 2+ years before I took over). So 450 days, I don't think so. Not with an HID that is supposed to last quite a bit longer than halogen.

I'm okay with $308 + labor/tax for a bulb.. if the life had extinguished. But because it is in its state prematurely (even the rep said it is probably due to the controller).. I think Toyota should pick up the tab.

My family has always owned Toyotas, and the Prius is my first and only car. My parents are kinda edgy on how often my car has been in (transaxle leak, window getting stuck in the down position, rattles, and now headlights) for being less than 1.5 year old.. but we'll see what happens. I'm sure with enough explanation Toyota will understand.. I hope.

 

Good for you M! (Phish Phood).

A great post and a great attitude. I'm glad you made as much headway with Toyota as you did. You certainly have dug up more information and a more understandable explanation than I've ever heard on this issue.

Your mature attitude and patient perserverance with Toyota Corporate is all the more impressive considering how young you apparantly are (assumption based on your statement about you parent's involvement in your welfare and this being your very first car).

Thanks for all your efforts. I hope Toyota is finally inspired to get to the bottom of this otherwise inexplicible inconvenience (and intolerable cost).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Phish Phood @ Jul 17 2007, 04:49 PM) [snapback]480502[/snapback]</div>

Make that two.

Here is my update. So it took a while to get an appointment, but they switched out pretty much everything related to the PS headlight. The bulb the housing, some wires and gaskets, and the module that controls the light a bunch of crap. I didn't get 4 miles from the dealer when I noticed the headlight dim, get bright, then go out. The first time I actually saw it go out, thanks to the shiny truck ahead of me. So I drove right back to show them to prove I'm not making this all up. So they called Toyota and they said to swap out the headlight again, which is the first thing they did. The service guy has no confidence in the repair, but he said that is what they have to do as a next step.

I'm getting rather annoyed with the whole thing really. I saw the bill it was like $650 for the total swap out. Luckily it was all warranty work.

Another thing that is annoying is that the new headlight is a different color than the old one. The service guy said that it has to break in or some crap like that. I don't believe that, but we will see.

 

Well, here comes my two cents worth..... Unlike Galaxee's DH, I am a Toyota Technician. (working almost directly for Toyota, certainly meaning no offense, Galaxee ) I work for one of the last family owned dealerships in Florida. I know the owner very well and all three of his sons. My dealership is the biggest Prius seller in Florida (a few months ago we were #3 in the nation in Prius sales including California!)

So far, I have only had 1 HID issue that has been kicking my fat backside all over the shop and then some!! Unfortunately, the customer lives 50 miles away and only comes in every 4-6 weeks. I have replaced both HID ECU's and ordered both bulbs. One symptom that I found that was an excellant indicator of failure was that by aiming the lights closely against a wall and turning the lights on and off, the light would seem to flicker just a little. I had two Prius sitting side by side comparing the lights, one known to be having a problem, the other was good. (I hope!)

So far, Toyota has not sent out any TSB's or other information concerning HID failures. I would bet a SSC is possibly in the near future if they can find a real solution. Those also depend upon the number of failures they see in a particular area. Issues are tracked by way of Dealer Product Reports, which I have filed. If I see any other information from TMS I will post it.

 

I got my headlight bulb replace AGAIN today. No failure yet, but I only drove it for 20 minutes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bear68 @ Jul 26 2007, 06:09 PM) [snapback]485842[/snapback]</div>

galaxee's husband IS a Toyota technician.