BT Tech Stiffening Plate does not improve ride

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FloridaWen @ Jun 4 2007, 05:16 AM) [snapback]454878[/snapback]</div>

OK... so here's what you do. Get the car up on ramps. Get the tools and the new brace out, ready to go. Ask your wife to stay inside for like ten minutes. Crawl under the car and unbolt the factory plate (and since she's probably reading this) either DO install or DON'T install the new brace in its place. Clean up. Put the ramps and wrench away, and hide whatever leftover brace you end up with in a big ol' rag... and see what happens. Make sure you have at least one bleeding knuckle to prove that you weren't just out there drinking beer for ten minutes. Not double-blind. But at least single blind. This is the kind of stuff that interests me!

For double bonus points, repeat the process another day - maybe keeping the same brace on (either one, who knows?), and maybe swapping it back.

 

Ok here maybe this can help settle this bt plate thing:

Brian of BT TECH,
What is your plate suppose to do?
If not satisfied with the claim you make of it do you offer a full refund?

now that is a couple valid questions.

now we wait and see if we get the proper response or if the turd falls in someone else's lap.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priussoris @ Jun 4 2007, 05:03 PM) [snapback]455310[/snapback]</div>

Answering one of the questions for Brian; most buy the plate via the Prius Store, so you'd have to go to Danny if that's the case. As others have said, you could sell the plate here and take a small hit.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aaf709 @ Jun 4 2007, 06:09 PM) [snapback]455317[/snapback]</div>

I see Brians signature shows a phone number and damn near a business card effect
so if you call that number he CAN NOT SELL a plate?

explain that please I would think he could but I have been wrong once this year.
so then he could give the response to give a full money back correct?

 

Hello Craig,

The vast majority of BT Tech plate sales are processed by the Prius Chat store so you would have to check with them in regard to their return policies.

For those that purchase their BT Tech plate from us directly, we offer a 10 day money back satisfaction guarantee minus all shipping charges. Our plate must be returned to us in the same (new) condition or there will be a restocking fee of up to (15 percent) based upon the actual condition of the returned plate.

In all of the sales that we have made, I am pleased to report that not one has yet to come back so there is very little risk involved in purchasing one of our BT Tech plates.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priussoris @ Jun 4 2007, 08:23 PM) [snapback]455333[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BT Tech @ Jun 5 2007, 01:10 AM) [snapback]455500[/snapback]</div>

Brian,

Thanks for the information. Your return policy makes it likely that I will give your plate a try.

I take it that the return period is 10 days from when I receive the plate and not 10 days from when I order it. Also, do I have 10 days to evaluate the plate and then a few more for shipping, or do I have 10 days total to evaluate and return the plate? Again, this may be a moot point, as you did mention that there have been no returns so far.

Thanks!

 

Brian, BT tech
Thanks for the reply on the return policy but the first question was not answered
What does your product claim to do?
I have read all the post and it does everything, but what can you tell me it is suppose to do?

thanks

 

Although I have no direct experience with the stiffening plate, from what i can see it stiffens the chassis of the vehicle. This would act like subframe connectors or a welded rollbar on other vehicles that will stiffen the chassis. It would have no direct effect on the individual suspension components except as to the forces placed upon them.

A stiffer chassis often makes the car feel "tighter" and depending on the suspension geometry may often provide measurable improvement on a skidpad. However my experience with other vehicles leads me to believe that most normal drivers would not be able to directly quantify the results in a way that is measurable and repeatable.

I know that many cars have an overall improvement in handling when body twist is lessened. I would not anticipate a softer ride and I would not expect a large difference in handling qualities. usually the benefit of this type of stiffening is over the expected lifespan of the car by reducing the amount of rattles that inevitably happen as a result of body roll and twist. I would expect a slightly firmer feel to the cornering characteristics and a slightly more stable feel under stress from sidewinds or in hard cornering situations.

The stiffening plate would work very well as a nice compliment to a strut tower brace, and changes in shock/springs combinations, and wheel/tire variations. Again, I would not expect the single addition of a stiffening plate to provide such quantifiable results that it a "got to have" modification, but as one component of adjusting the suspension of the car to provide the characteristics that an owner desires, within the limits of the vehicle design.

For me, I feel the Prius has a bit more body roll than I would generally prefer, especially when slowing down from highway speeds in a braking scenario. Although best practices determines that a drive brake before they turn, most normal drivers break within the turn itself, and I believe the stiffening plate would likely reduce body lean somewhat by allowing the chassis to work more as a rigid piece by reducing flex.

You folks who are looking to qualtify a "return on investment" on a single chassis component I believe have your expectations set a bit too high and you would likely benefit from establishing your goal/priority of the modification and selecting all the appropriate pieces to achieve that goal instead of looking for a "silver bullet". Feel free to beat me up in my assessment as I have already said I have zero direct experience with this chassis enhancement but like everyone else here, somehow I manage to have an opinion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tnthub @ Jun 5 2007, 12:56 PM) [snapback]455824[/snapback]</div>

I thought you did a very fair assessment... all in all... try the plate and see if you like your ride better.... especially under stress, if you are disappointed.. take it off and repeat the drive to see if it worsens without the plate... still convinced it does nothing... return it and be famous!...

When someone tries to pin down "exactly" what it will do, it seems they are asking for the impossible unless that definition is allowed to consider very subjective terms varying from individual to individual.

All in all... see if it helps the ride!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Jun 5 2007, 02:45 PM) [snapback]455871[/snapback]</div>

Can you please stop being such a shameless shill and let us make up our minds on our own???

Your editorializing about every single post is getting old. We are all adults and don't need your interpretation to understand the material.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tnthub @ Jun 5 2007, 10:56 AM) [snapback]455824[/snapback]</div>

This is one of the more insightful posts on this thread. I tend to agree with the points being made.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tnthub @ Jun 5 2007, 10:56 AM) [snapback]455824[/snapback]</div>

The one thing that is keeping me on the fence regarding the BT plate is the TOM'S Rear suspension brace - they both compete for two of the mounting points, so it is one or the other, not both. Since the TOM'S Rear suspension brace anchors more points than the BT plate, I am leaning toward the TOM'S Rear suspension brace. But that doesn't mean that the BT plate in ineffectual.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tnthub @ Jun 5 2007, 10:56 AM) [snapback]455824[/snapback]</div>

Body roll is generally addressed by shock absorber tuning. The best that I have seen is the Koni FSD shocks which have the ability to handle both road bumps and body roll in a turn with different tuning specifications. Unfortunately, the Koni FSD is not available for the Prius. If it were, a set would already be on my car (and I probably would not have gone with the Touring edition).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tnthub @ Jun 5 2007, 10:56 AM) [snapback]455824[/snapback]</div>

Completely agree on this point. As I said earlier, I personally am on the fence due to conflicts between the BT plate and the TOM'S Rear suspension brace for mounting points. I have the TOM'S Front suspension braces (Upper and Lower) and think that the next step toward handling modifications for me will be the TOM'S Rear suspension brace since it tightens more of the rear suspension bits than just a chassis bracket which the BT plate appears to be more of. And because of the mounting conflict between the two, I have to decide on one or the other, not both....

 

Yes, something like this would be really interesting. If you can't make it double-blind, then you can use darelldd's suggestion, and also maybe add a coin flip to determine whether the plate gets installed or not so that there's no discernable pattern.

An earlier poster had suggested doing something like this with someone who had already said they could perceive the difference with and without plate -- so that you get the sensitive drivers. These types of tests are not expensive, and are not hard, and can be done over and over and over again to any skeptical heart's content. I mean, any of the posters who have noticed the benefits should be able to easily validate the plate with this simple test -- have someone either put on or take off the plate on your Prius, drive around, and then say "it's on" or "it's off" -- like the Pepsi Challenge. All we need to see is if a driver can truly tell the difference, and then the argument is over. So who will step up?

I can't believe I'm jumping into one of these threads -- but I've been reading quite a few of them with an alternating mix of fascination and dismay. Where's the signal amidst all the noise? To be honest, I would think that most posters here -- even the skeptics -- would LOVE for the plate to be proven to be truly effective, because then it would be a great fix for a widely perceived problem. I sure would. But has there been ANY objective data presented to support the plate? So far, all I've heard are appeals to testimony, individual credibility, and aesthetics. To be honest, even those who bought the plate and felt NO difference could just as easily be under the power of suggestion themselves. But those who have attempted to run repeatable tests have had their methodology and motives questioned. While it all seems awfully convincing for the BT plate's effectiveness, the fact that no one has stepped forward with ANY science-based information to support the plate is really mystifying.







<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jun 4 2007, 07:57 PM) [snapback]455307[/snapback]</div>

 

I've probably said this a few times before on various BT Plate threads, but I think it bears repeating.

I had read the earlier postings about the plate and thought that it might solve a problem that I was having with the car. I had owned the car for about a month and was becoming more and more displeased with the "squirrely" handling in cross winds and when going over non-symetrical imperfections in the road. The instability communicated itself through the drivers seat as a wiggling motion that seemed to come from the rear of the car. As soon as this motion was felt, I would have to make a small steering correction to offset the push from the rear end.

Shortly after I ordered the Plate I started to see more negative comments about the plate (none from those who had purchased it), and started to get second thoughts. Before I had chance to act on my doubts, the plate arrived. with the help of BobZ (no longer a Prius owner, and an ardent Bt Plate doubter)- he had a set of ramps, I installed the plate.

I immediately took the car out, with the thought in my mind that I had just thrown $165.00 away if BT Tech wouldn't take it back, I hit all the areas where I had been experiencing the "wiggle" problem.

It was 90% gone! I the only time I could reproduce the problem was when I really got aggressive and running at higher speeds with the "big Guys" (Not Hummers - big semis)

The last of the problem disappeared when I switched to 195/15-60 MXV4-Plus's. Would the MXV4's have cured the problem without the BT Plate? I don't know. Even if they did they are certainly a more expensive solution. I replaced the UNintegrities because of poor wet road performance.

That's my experience with the BT Plate. And, I was expecting it not to work.

The car drives the same now as any other front driver I've ever owned. The rear end is totally dead, and follows the front of the car obediantly. That was not the case before the BT PLate.

 

So what makes your opinion any more or less valid than those of us that have purchased the BT plate and like it?
I got one for my 07 Prius Touring edition and I can not be more thrilled with the difference it made on my car. There is one road in particular that I drive down and before I installed the plate the car felt like it was jiggling and now it is as stable as my old sports car used to be. It also handles on the highway a lot more stable, especially when large trucks pass me or it is windy.

I don't think that they marketed this part as to make people believe that it will turn the Prius into a race car but the changes it made were evident to me. I love when one person thinks they know everything and thinks that everyone should think the way they do just because.


Frank


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(John in LB @ Jun 5 2007, 05:01 PM) [snapback]455985[/snapback]</div>

 

John_in_LB, I haven't bought the plate or tested one, so my opinion will be immediately discounted, but as an engineer, the reason I didn't buy one is that I can't see how it can help given the mounting and location on the Prius. The original plate is loaded only in tension, keeping the U channel from flexing open, a task for which it is plenty strong. There may be other forces in play which are not obvious, but I'll need a finite element analysis or a well run double blind study to be convinced. Another interesting study would be to replace the mounting bolts with strain gauges and log the forces when driving. Lacking that, I suspect what we are seeing is another example of the Hawthorne effect.

Tom

 

Thanks for your info TnThub, thought I would stir the worms some more LOL

I just thought there would be some kind of advantage since it is a replacement aftermarket item to "make it better" you know like the tv infomercials "quickNBrite it will get your clothes cleaner smells better holes repaired if using this detergent" I was hoping to hear a selling performance by the manufatures in writing even that IT WILL DO THIS OR THAT not well just opinions.
But your info makes a lot of sense and I have looked at the Toms equipment.
and then said hey it's a small car good mileage it drives fine to me I DONT NEED NO STINKIN PLATE OR BRACE..

but it has been an adventure reading all the threads.
I do like that the bt plate keeps all the wheelchairs and walkers in check!!! and my dog

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Jun 5 2007, 02:07 PM) [snapback]455889[/snapback]</div>

Sorry your panties are in such a wad swannyriver, but my last post was post 109, the one before that was about 10 before that....

Thats hardly commenting on every post.

I won't loose any sleep if you can't make up your mind...... I hope you don't buy the plate, I'm sure you will be disappointed anyway.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fboyle @ Jun 5 2007, 06:29 PM) [snapback]456088[/snapback]</div>

He doesn't think he knows everything. He shared his opinion. EXACTLY like you did. Except he didn't complain about you doing it...