TSB Released on Fuel Gauge Innacuracies

response to Swoozle

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(swoozle\";p=\"38637)</div>

Swoozle: My dealer is Toyota of Lake City. They're on Lake City Way at 135th. Telephone: 367-0080. So far, I've been happy with them. They were aware of the TSB, but didn't have all the parts in when I (and they) thought they would, so I have to go back for another visit to have the computer installed. They have a shuttle service too, which many dealers don't, and loaner cars. If you do go in, the service manager is named Sean; tell him Bob Allen, the pilot, sent you. He's interested in taking flying lessons and we've talked about it. Good guy.
The service department is very busy, which is a good sign that they take care of customers well, I think.
Bob

 

actually it has become apparent to me that the bars are not intended to reflect the entire tank.

so when hitting the last bar initially, you actually have nearly ¼ a tank left and not .1 of a tank as the 10 bar display would lend one to think.

 

My car is in for this TSB today. They gave me a Corolla in the meantime. I dropped it off last night. Now, 3:00 this afternoon they tell me it should be done "by 7:00"! Yikes. This is taking quite a long time. I hope they're not having problems.

Kevin

 

DaveinOlyWA:
This is a very interesting conclusion, but one which I think is highly believable, or at lest is supported by the faacts we all experience. Now if only Toyota had clued in the people who actually BOUGHT the car to such little details...

For another voice in this debate, here is what the September 2004 Car&Driver had to say (from an article entitled the "Frugalympics" comparing the Prius, Civic hybrid, Volkswagon diesel and a standard Toyota Echo)
"Moreover, although we meticulously performed our refills, they covered relatively short distances. When adding less than three gallons, as we did a few times, a small error leads to a large deviation in mpg. To make matters worse, some cars are notoriously hard to fill precisely—the Prius may be the worst ever."

We are not alone in our conclusions/questions regarding "Just how much gas is in there???"

 

well to me, considering my lifetime 53.4 mpg i find this relatively small inconveinence easily endurable.

i went from a vehicle that had a 540 mile range to this Prius that had a 500+ mile range so im happy...but realize the old vehicle with the 540 mile range had to have two tanks to do that and BOTH tanks were 50% larger than the Prius tank and the gas gauge would quit working when either tank got below about 3/8 of a tank due to the sensor wearing out. the needle would simply start to bounce around all over the place and eventually would peg out. all this was due to the switch that switch fuel flow from one tank to the other wearing out.

soon the switch will wear out and if i dont replace it, (and i will not) i will be limited to one tank which is fine with me... it has after all, been used only one time since i received my Prius and its predicted usage is expected to DROP...

 

all N/A Prius have the bladder as did the classic.

 

Well, I had the TSB fixed with no issues (I think they used the mileage from my last visit, which seems somewhat unkosher to me...). The biggest difference is how quickly the lower-end bars go away. Before, I would lose the last five bars at 20-25 miles, where now I go 30-45 miles before a bar disappears. I've been doing a lot of driving with large gaps between gas stations, so I don't know what my max range is yet, but I can guarantee 400 miles on a tank now, vs 350 previously.

I don't see a huge difference in the fill capability, but I haven't been able to go to one flashing bar yet. I'm filling 7.5 gal with two solid bars remaining.

 

My gauge reads fine. My problem is with the gas pump stopping at 7.5 gallons and then having to eek the next two gallons in. That eeking has to be done VERY carfully to assure gasoline doesn't come gushing out when removing the nozzle.

Does this TSB correct this problem?

If it does, does my complaint have to be worded to include the gas gauge reading issue?

 

the TSB DOES NOT correct your problem Ken.

i have no corrections available for my car and it does the same thing.

i usually get to 8.1-8.4 gallons before it shuts off. then after that, i cannot put in more than a few cents at a time AT ANY SPEED without the pump shutting off. so i sit their and spend 3-4 minutes "clunking" in the last $2-3...

as i have said before, if this TSB is a hassle for you to do, i strongly suggest that you skip it. i simply dont think its really worth it. you will not get a great working gauge afterwards... you may notice some difference, but what i read on the board, i dont really know what that would be as my gauge acts just as been desrribed several dozen times by people here.

i had a chance to drive a friends fully loaded early model 2004 and i admit to only having to put gas in it a few times, but i did make about a dozen or more trips to Sea-Tac airport and back and noticed no real difference in the way the gauge worked.

i guess you just need to get used to the fact that the last bar signifies about a ¼ of a tank left. setting trip B when it gets that low works for me. then figure 2½ gallons is a safe margin.

realize that in a car i didnt own, there was no way i would risk running out of gas, so i always put gas in it as soon as it got to the last bar.

i also know he hasnt gotten any fixes yet... ive been after him to at least get the engine compartment seal done since in WA St... it will be necessary. although his car is garaged nearly all the time, you cant avoid the rain all the time.

 

Re: TSB: does it really increase fill capacity?

I'm very interested in hearing from anyone who has had this TSB done and whether you've noticed an increase in fill capacity. I've seen one post here that indicates it does, but have seen no feedback from others.

My experience is problematic. After a really crappy experience at Rodland Toyota in Everett, WA (scratched dash panels, cruddy reinstall job), I've filled up twice at the flashing bar and been able to get in 8.1 gallons. No difference from before. The bars go away more consistently as I would expect from the meter swap, but I'm seeing no physical fill difference.

I'm interested because I think they might have put the old style fill pipe back in. The part numbers listed on the receipt I have are the NEW combo meter and the OLD fill pipe.

I'll be following up on it with the dealer and also trying to find out how to visually confirm that there is a new pipe in my car.

Thanks

 

I told my dealer that I was unable to get more than 10 gallons of fuel in the tank and they had me bring it in for what I thought would be this service. My Prius' vin is JTDKB20U44027*. They just called me and told me that the Prius only has a 10 gallon tank. How should I convince them otherwise?

 

Does anyone know which page in the manual states the fuel guage capacity? When I politely ask about it this afternoon, I'd like to take little time time to get to my facts on the issue.

 

Re: TSB Released on Fuel Gauge Innacuracies - Updated

I just finished my first full tank after having the fuel gauge "fixed" by running out of gas at 424 miles on the tank. There was one bar left on the gauge, it wasn't blinking and, the Low Fuel icon did not display. Stranded at 9:30 at night on the mountain road to our house my wife and I got a ride home with the Colorado State Patrol. Nothing like having a CHP officer for a chauffeur especially when your sitting in the back seat "cage"!!
We went back to the car with some gas and, after putting about a gallon in, was able to start the car (the Master Fault reset by itself) and drive home. I took the car to the gas station the next day and was able to put only 9 gallons in.I'll be calling Stevinson Toyota West this morning to see what can be done.

I will update this experience as soon as more info is available.

10/23/04 Update

After leaving the car at the dealership for 2 days I received the following information -

1. They couldn't find anything wrong even after using the fuel pump on the car and draining the tank several times.

2. The tank float resides in a side reservoir.

3. According to them the usable volume is 10.3 gallons. There is an unusable volume required for proper tank operation.

With 3 bars on the fuel gage, I was able to put in 9 gallons of gas on my last fill up at 365 miles.

 

the fuel capacity like any fuel capacity listed for any car is a nominal figure and there is a likely margin of error that probably does not exceed +/- 2-3%.

all that means that out of 100 tanks the overall average will be 11.9 gallons with the smallest being about 11.6 and the largest being 12.2.

the presence of the bladder forces one to take a different approach when filling the gas tank. all the things we have seen and read about when being warned to not overfill the tank must be ignored as the average amount of gas that can be added after the first shutoff can be up to 3 gallons with a minimum being at least 1½ gallons.

there have been reports of botched installations and i would be tempted to have them re-do the install. but that may not be an option.

 

Hmmm This is a bit scary. My experience with the new computer (yes they did put it in this time, but I'm not so sure about the pipe) was that when I drove in there was 3 bars on the display. When I drove the car off the lot the last bar was blinking. All odometers were reset this time (the lifetime reading is down from 10,300 miles to 8,600 - I "lost" almost 2,000 miles) The radio presets were still there, but the annoying reverse beep was on (I don't see how anyone can drive with it!) The tank display showed 0.1 miles so I don't think they even drove it around the block. I filled up immediately and the pump shut off at 6.5 gallons, worse than my usual 7.5 gallons with the light blinking. I crept another gallon into the tank. I've driven 120 miles on the new computer and none of the bars have moved yet. So far it is not looking too good as far as improvements go but I'm waiting for at least 2 full tanks for judgement. If the problem isn't fixed I won't be upset, I figure I'm just a Beta tester for this, although I do hope that the new system isn't less accurate than the old.

 

i have the new update installed at the factory, and its somewhat better than yours... i think its beginning to look as if anyone who has the update done at a dealership is in for a crap shoot.

 

My first bar dropped off at ~140 miles - significantly less than what I'm used to, which is almost always greater than 150 miles, but always less than 200 miles before the first bar drops off.

-m.

 

Page 311 in the manual shows fuel cacpcity