God hates Kansas

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mlott @ May 10 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]439657[/snapback]</div>

Get over yourself already. I just stated a re-evaluation of my opinion and gave ideas on what could be done to aleviate some of the stress caused by natural disasters in areas where people refuse to move for various reasons or because the infrastructure is so ingrained in that location. Did you miss where I bashed Sacramento (it's in CA.) for building in flood zones (our problem is not much different than those of NO), or the fools who buy houses on unconsolidated land in the SF Bay Area (it's in CA.)? The point is, people should:

#1 Limit their exposure to re-occuring natural disasters by chosing not to live in a particular area.

or

#2 Develop a deep knowledge of disaster awareness and design their living and social structures to work with nature instead of against it and thus limit the potential damage inccured.

If there is anything the above message that you are going to take personal again then I am sorry but do not get all defensive and keep bringing up the same tired point of "well other places have problems too, should they all relocate?" You are aware of the problems associated with your location so either do something about it and work to make it better or move. Rebuilding the same garbage over again is very close to the non-clinical definition of insanity.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mlott @ May 10 2007, 04:43 PM) [snapback]439453[/snapback]</div>

Not to mention the 1995 heat wave in Chicago which killed an estimated 600 to 700 people. Maybe God hates Chicago. He doesn't seem to care much for the Cubbies.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ May 11 2007, 03:34 AM) [snapback]439769[/snapback]</div>

I covered that already.

Fire prevention becomes yet another point for the people of California to organize and "lobby" for. Fire destruciton wouldn't be nearly so bad if we did hold such rediculous views on ire supression and have so many people living in locations that make it impossible to ALLOW a fire to burn in a natural way. Chamise is supposed to burn, so are Foothill Pines yet we supress fires and allow the fuel load to build up to dangerous levels. Yes, I do fight against that as well. Mechanical means is the only way to reduce the risks at this point and that is much more costly then just letting areas burn, indeed now that the fuel loads are so high we cannot even allow it to burn without destroying the ecosystem.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mlott @ May 11 2007, 07:08 AM) [snapback]439876[/snapback]</div>

I am unconcerned about your opinion of me. I know how natural systems work and I'm fairly well read on historical civilizational collapses due to natural disastrs, anthropogenic mismanagement, and other human follies. You like the use the term "enlightened" in a negative way which I find fairly amusing. Tell me, what do you do in your local area to spread awareness and present solutions to these problems? I won't fault you for doing nothing but to attack me and infer that I do not care about people when I actually DO things to help people and the environment we depend on is kind of retarded. Because of the decisions people make or chose not to make I would say that people ARE to blame for many of the problems that befall them as a whole. Individually much of this blame can fall on the governmental systems or chiefdoms but people are still to blame in most cases.

California is on fire again.... See there you go talking about other areas with "natural" problems. Do you know why the people living in those areas are in danger? I do. Shifting the attention away from your hometown does nothing in this debate. People are ignorant of their environment just about everywhere. LOL

BTW, you nevr answered my quesiton either. How is the subsidance thing panning out? Any new numbers? Any plans for saltwater intrusion for local water supplies?

To be fair I will look at your link after my chemistry final. I did open it once then the computer boggd down so I turned it off and left for a date.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ May 11 2007, 12:10 PM) [snapback]439926[/snapback]</div>

I answered your question about altitude with my link since you asked for a reference. I admit, I missed your prior sentence asking about subsidence. Yes, swamp areas subside when drying out.

I am glad that you know why people living in "those areas" are in danger.
New Orleans is not going away - that is a fact. It will be here long after I and you are dead and buried.
So keep judging others, its what, IMHO people like you enjoying doing. That is why I use "enlightened"
in such a negative way for people like you. You insist that you are right and that everyone else is wrong.
You insist that we should move New Orleans, or that the US shouldn't help rebuild New Orleans. That is your act of judging. Frankly, you do not have the right to tell anyone where they should live or infer that they are stupid for living where they do!

So, remind me, what degrees do you have? What education for all of your spewing? Your writing as an authority? And, stop "shift"[ing] the debate. I was limiting my views to the US - not Indonesia. Wasn't it you in your arguing from authority that mentioned third world countries?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mlott @ May 11 2007, 08:41 AM) [snapback]439959[/snapback]</div>

I caught the sea level part. It was the continued subsidance I was worried about, along with projections for sea level rise and reduced creation of delta material. Lanscape sinking, lack of shore building, and sea level rising is a recipe for disaster.

When you see people doing the same things over and ovr again or repeating historical mistakes one can't help but shake their head at the lack of planning or awareness. Call me what you will but that doesn't put you in a better situation nor does it help your community.

I have an AS in Computer Science. I am currently back in college for a degree in Ecology, Evolution, and Biodiversity. I've been on dozens of field study trips and programs in California, Baja, and Southern Chile, (Ayacara). A lot of my friends are professors and biologists/geologists who work in the field so our typical conversations revolve around things like this. I also do volunteer work to preserve and restore our local watersheds and open spaces. Do I have a Ph.D? Not yet but when I eat breathe and sleep this stuff I'd say I have more than a fair share of knowledge on the subject. In addition I've read 17 books in the last year not including my text books. This does not make me an expert by any means but I do feel I have a better grasp on the big picture than a lot of the general population. Ohh, I also grew up in the "slums" of Suisun, California where evryone did drugs and lived in poverty and sucked off the goverment teat. Yes, I'm familiar with the limitations of being poor.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mlott @ May 10 2007, 03:43 PM) [snapback]439453[/snapback]</div>

When I demand a handout from you to get through any of these things, you come right on here and call me a dumbass. My only request is that you hold your breath until I need you for anything.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ May 11 2007, 12:55 PM) [snapback]439971[/snapback]</div>

Well, we do have on thing in common. I have a BS degree in Computer Science. Have you done any programming? I do SQL, Oracle, PeopleSoft, and a bunch of others.

I don't think our delta can be rebuilt the natural way anymore. The FEDS, IMHO, have reduced the silt load in the river and constrained its path. All this done for commerce and the betterment of the rest of the country. I grant you great knowledge in Californian geology and environment, since you have volunteered in that area. What is Chile like? I haven't read up on it.
As for my involvement in local reclamation, I didn't do anything - should I be shipping dirt from up north? . I pay my taxes. I try to elect responsible people. And I hope that we hire experts that do the right thing. We trusted the Corp of Engineers, and we were let down. So, what can the common man alone - its only through many that large changes be made.
I try to do my part - I recycle. I drive a Prius.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ May 11 2007, 12:59 PM) [snapback]439978[/snapback]</div>

Can you refer me back to a demand for a handout?
And exactly when did I ever use the term "dumbass"?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ May 7 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]437014[/snapback]</div>

You missed the point the op was making. Ie; The idea is that since a supreme being CAN control everything, and since tragic stuff happens, that means fault can rightfully be fixed on the supreme being. It's kind of like when your children (3 year olds ... 4 year olds) rant because you won't give them THEIR way. Wahh! I want that toy, I want to stay up late! I want MORE candy! Because everyone knows, kids are the repository of all knowledge as to how & WHY things ought to be, and what's best for them, right?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mlott @ May 11 2007, 09:24 AM) [snapback]440006[/snapback]</div>

LOL nah, most I've done with programing is HTML and Visual BASIC which is like saying I'm an architect after playing with LEGOS.

I agree that allowing the delta to rebuild itself naturally is difficult because of choices made upstream but this is exactly my point. We harm ecological system in an effort to better our economy and we end up spending more money than the changes were worth in the long run. People get sick, ecosystems break down, other people die, and the whole system comes down. Chile is wonderful and terrible. It is very similar to British Columbia in climate. The terrible part I refer to is the adoption of western culture and the lose of native cultures. The smaller villages have economic problems associated with commercial fishing fleets depleting their fish stocks and the fishing regulations that ensue hurt the locals. In the village of Ayacara the fishermen are allowed to fish 1 day a month (rain or shine) from their small boats. That is not enough for them to live off of so they turn to more destructive habits to make money. The fishing done by the commercial fleets helps the economies of that nation but have a detrimental effect on others. This is a common theme throughout the world. My trip there was based on getting a view of a program designed to help pull their village out of poverty and create a sustainable economy.

Here is a pic that shows one of their fishing boats in the background. It is a little larger than the one I went out in but you get the idea. (This is in the fjords of southern Chile)


Or you ca view a slideshow if you'd rather Chile Slideshow


Like I said before, I'm not judging you for the work you do or do not do (I simply used it as an exmaple of my caring for people which was called into question). I do what I do because I enjoy it and I know it's helpful but it's not for everyone. My opinions are based mostly on a whole system that I feel is flawed. So despite our going back and forth I offer you an appology if I offended you.

 

F8L, if you haven't already read John Perkins' "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" I recommend it for you - very interesting reading about the extent of economic exploitation of the 3rd world - and hopeful reading, in that Perkins, a major player in that game, ultimately recanted (and wrote the book).
Your knowledge of global economic situations and interest in personally effecting constructive change wherever you can brought the book to mind.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ May 11 2007, 03:30 PM) [snapback]440246[/snapback]</div>

Thanks Mark. I'll definately check it out. I have heard about it but with so many books floating around I forgot about it. I'll watch the streaming video on DemocracyNow.org in a bit.

 

This video explains why so many areas in our country have been hit by disasters:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qYXii7mg1NU

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 13 2007, 07:16 PM) [snapback]441373[/snapback]</div>

LMAO!!!

Pat has been right all along!